* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [I. CALL TO ORDER, CALL OF ROLL] [00:00:06] IT IS SIX 30 AND I'M GONNA CALL THIS REGULAR MEETING OF THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION TO ORDER. FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS THE ROLL CALL. FRANK ROBINSON. I'M HERE. JIM CASON. DO CRAIG STANDER. HIS FAMILY'S GETTING A GRANDBABY. I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S GOT IT YET OR NOT, BUT IT'S, THAT'S WHY HE IS NOT HERE. LAURA OTTER HERE. JEFF COBLE? HERE. CLIFF MCCULLOUGH? HERE. DAVE SNYDER. HERE. ADAM BENFIELD? HERE. MITCH. RICHARD HERE. OUR NEW STAFF GUY, THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL. GLAD TO HAVE YOU, SIR. THANK YOU, SIR. I'M GLAD. BEEN HERE. WELL, THE, THE ROOM IS NOT FILLED WITH CITIZENS, BUT ARE THERE ANYBODY HERE TO MAKE COMMENTS? NEXT ITEM IS [ II. STAFF AND COUNCIL LIAISON REPORTS] ROUTINE STAFF AND COUNCIL REPORTS. CITY COUNCIL LIAISON. YOU WERE, DO, DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THE EMAILS AT ALL RIGHT NOW? WHICH PART? ACCESS. STAN. WHEN I WAS TALKING TO STAN EARLIER TODAY, UH, I BROUGHT UP TO HIS CONCERN, HIS CONCERN ABOUT SOME OF YOU HAVING ACCESS TO YOUR CITY EMAILS. YES, SIR. UH, WE, WE, YES. HERE, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO, THOUGH, THANKS FOR BRINGING THAT UP. AT THE END OF THE MEETING, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE CAN COMMUNICATE AND SOME OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE STUFF, BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT THEN. OKAY. SO, AS FAR AS THE LIAISON REPORTS, UM, THE CITY COUNCIL DID DISCUSS THE TRADE AND RECOMMENDATION BROUGHT FORTH FROM THE BUILDING AND SANDERS COMMISSION. UM, THE AGENDA ITEM WAS TABLED PER MY RECOMMENDATION. RIGHT NOW, MR. WEST IS DOING THE CODE DIAGNOSTICS FOR ALL OF OUR ORDINANCES. THE HOPE OR THOUGHT WAS, IS THAT WE COULD GET THAT CODE DIAGNOSTICS COMPLETE. IT'S AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. WE'RE HOPING FOR THE FIRST MONTH OF FIRST PART OF JANUARY, IT SHOULD BE COMPLETE. AND THEN AT THAT TIME, WE CAN, UH, BRING THAT DRAINAGE ORDINANCE BACK TO CITY COUNCIL AND HAVE A MORE ROBUST DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT YOU RECOMMENDED. SO THE OTHER REASON IT WASN'T AS, UM, CRITICAL TO GET IT IN FRONT OF CITY COUNCIL AS IT WAS IMPORTANT TO GET IT TO YOU GUYS FIRST WAS BECAUSE, UH, THE CITY MANAGER IMPLEMENTED A, UH, ENGINEERING REPORT FOR ALL NEW CONSTRUCTION. SO THAT WAS SOMETHING HE IMMEDIATELY DID TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE DRAINAGE CONCERNS. SO WE FELT COMFORTABLE WITH THE ACTION THAT MR. WEST DID. AND THEN WE HAD YOUR RECOMMENDATION, LET THIS CODE DIAGNOSTICS GET COMPLETE, AND THEN WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO CITY COUNCIL JANUARY. IT COULD BE REALLY SHORT. NOW THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT . MAYBE YOUR ISSUE HAD TO DO WITH MINOR MOVEMENT OF DIRT AND MINOR IMPROVEMENTS. I DID SHARE SOME CONCERNS THAT THAT WAS, I I SHARED SOME OF THE SAME CONCERNS THAT OTHER MEMBERS OF THE BUILDING AND SANDERS COMMISSION SHARED DURING THEIR MEETINGS, THAT PERHAPS THERE WAS SOME UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. YEAH. SO SECONDLY, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ORDINANCE STUFF, THINGS ON TONIGHT. DO WE DO ANYTHING UNTIL AFTER FREEZE THE NICHOLS? I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE BUILDING CENTERS COMMISSION. I, I THINK IF YOU WERE TO ASK MR. WEST DIRECTLY, UM, ANYTHING THAT HAD TO DO WITH A ORDINANCE, HE WOULD PREFER TO HAVE IT NOT ENACTED UNTIL AFTER THE CO DIAGNOSTICS. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. THAT MEANS THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T GET THINGS READY TO GO. YEAH. TO THE, THE S TO CHAPTER NINE AREN'T DEVELOPMENT EXACTLY THAT. DO YOU THINK THAT ONE? NO, I I, I, I HAVE A SIMILAR QUESTION ON SOMETHING UNRELATED, AND IT WAS SPECIFIC TO THE DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCES. SO NINE MIGHT MAKE IT. I THINK SO. OKAY. STAFF REPORTS. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING FOR US? NOT AT THIS MOMENT NOW. SORRY, I WAS NOT ABLE TO BE IN THE MEETING LAST WEEK WITH YOU, UH, TO DETERMINE THAT IS WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, WHAT WE'D LOOK FOR IN STAFF ROUTINE. STAFF REPORTS. IS ANYTHING YOU WANT TO TELL US [00:05:01] ABOUT BUILDING? I DID PUT A LITTLE TOGETHER, UH, JUST TO EXPLAIN WHAT OUR PROCESS IS AT THIS MOMENT. WE'VE HAD, UH, AS Y'ALL, EVERYONE IS AWARE AND GET INTO IT, BUT THE LAST COUPLE YEARS HAS BEEN REALLY ROUGH ON OUR DEPARTMENT. UH, A LOT OF STAFF CHANGE. WE GOT, WE WENT FROM EIGHT STAFF TO THREE STAFF FOR A YEAR OR BETTER. UH, WE WERE AT THAT MOMENT, WE WERE TRYING TO JUST KEEP THE PERMITS GOING. TAM, JILLIAN AND MYSELF KEEP THE PERMITS AND THE INSPECTIONS GOING. WE KNEW THERE WAS A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT WOULD BE TABLED, UH, BECAUSE OF NO DIRECTOR AND OUR DEPARTMENT FOR A WHILE. AND, UH, BUT NOW THAT WE HAVE A DIRECTOR, UH, WE'RE GETTING STAFF MEMBERS, WE'RE USING UP OUR STAFF. UH, AND WE HAD PUT TOGETHER A PROCESS ON HOW TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A LOT OF THESE UNSAFE BUILDINGS. AND SOME OF THESE UNSAFE BUILDINGS ARE, ARE OLD PERMITS BECAUSE OF WHEN THE ECONOMY WENT DOWN, BAD THINGS HAPPENED AND PEOPLE LOST, UH, CONTRACTS OR WHATEVER FOR WHATEVER REASON. UH, SO THAT'S WHY SO MANY BUILDINGS ARE CITY. I HAVE CONTACTED THESE BUILDERS, UH, SOME OF THESE PROJECTS THAT WENT TO BANKS. UH, SO WE HAD CON WE WERE IN THE PROCESS OF CONTACTING BANKS. UH, TODAY I SAT DOWN WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT. I HAVE A LIST ON MY WALL IN MY OFFICE ON THE BOARD OF ALL THE MAJOR VIOLATIONS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. NOW. AS OF RIGHT NOW, I HAVE 20. WE ARE GETTING TOGETHER. WAIT, I'M SORRY. WHAT'S A MAJOR VIOLATION? WELL, WHAT WE CONSIDER A PARKED CAR ON AN UNAPPROVED SERVICE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS A UNSAFE STRUCTURE. SO WE'RE WANTING TO HIT THOSE FIRST. UH, WE ARE, WE ARE SENDING OUT LETTERS. UH, WE HAVE TRIED TO HAVE EVERYTHING COMPLETED BY TOMORROW AFTERNOON. WE'LL SEND THESE FIRST 20 OUT, UH, IF NOT TOMORROW AFTERNOON BY MONDAY. UH, WE'RE GETTING THE CODE REFERENCES TOGETHER, TAKING PICTURES OF ALL THE PROPERTIES. THAT WAY THE, WHEN WE SEND YOU LETTERS, THE VIOLATIONS IS GONNA BE IN THE LETTER. THE PICTURES ARE GONNA BE IN THE LETTER. AND THE CODE, REFERENCES CODE OR ORDINANCE REFERENCES, UH, IN THE LETTERS CO. OUR ORDINANCE, WE HAVE, THEY HAVE 10 DAYS TO CORRECT THE ISSUES. UNSAFE BUILDINGS. THEY HAVE UP TO 30 DAYS TO START THE PROCESS. UH, SO THAT'S THE PROCESS WE'RE GOING WITH. UH, WE'RE GONNA SEND OUT THESE, THESE LETTERS BY, UH, NOVEMBER 20TH. WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE REST OF THE LIST. UH, DWAYNE, MY INSPECTOR, BOTH CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND MYSELF UNTIL THE 20TH, WILL BE DRIVING AROUND, LOGGING IN ALL THE OTHER, UH, GRASS ISSUES, PARKED CARS ON UNAPPROVED SURFACES, ANY, ANYTHING THAT AGAINST ORDINANCE. UH, WE WILL HAVE THOSE LETTERS READY. WE'RE GONNA TRY OUR BEST TO HAVE THOSE LETTERS READY BY THE 20TH OF THIS MONTH. UH, MY DIRECTOR ASKED ME NOT TO SEND THOSE OUT UNTIL AFTER THANKSGIVING, BUT PROBABLY GONNA BE AROUND DECEMBER 1ST, DECEMBER 2ND, THAT MONDAY, TUESDAY. WE'LL TRY OUR BEST TO GET THOSE LETTERS, TO GET THE BALL ROLLING, UH, ON A LOT OF THESE, UH, PROPERTIES THAT HAVE ISSUES OR THAT'S IN VIOLATIONS. SO THAT'S THE PROCESS. WE HAVE TO START WITH LETTERS. WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM CHANCE, UH, TO CORRECT IT, YOU KNOW, TO COME IN. AND THEN, WE'LL, WE'LL GO FROM THERE AFTER, UH, THE 10 DAYS OR THE 30 DAYS. SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ABANDONED BUILDING. WE, WE HAVE QUITE A FEW ABANDONED JOB SITES. UH, LIKE I SAID, FOR WHATEVER REASON TO BUILD, THE HOMEOWNERS HAD ISSUES. UH, AND THESE PERMITS WERE JUST EXPIRED. UH, AND SOME OF THESE PROPERTIES, BANKS HAVE TAKEN CONTROL OF MY FAVORITE AND SAY, BUILDING NOTES. THE BURNED OUT TRAILERS. YES, SIR. UH, I WENT TAKE PICTURES OF THOSE TODAY. MORE PICTURES. UH, [00:10:01] AND THOSE ARE ON MY LIST. THOSE ARE SOME OF OUR TOP WALLS. UH, ONE OF THE GUARD TRAILER HOUSES, A GENTLEMAN COME IN AND PULL THE PERMIT, A DEMO PERMIT. HE DEMOED THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE? YEAH. OH, SUPER. YEAH. AND HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE BUILDING ANOTHER, UH, STRUCTURE THERE, UH, WHICH IS GONNA BE AN ENGINEER STRUCTURE. AND HE'S ALSO TALKING ABOUT BUYING THE ONE NEXT, UH, AND CLEARING THAT OUT. UH, I AM WORKING WITH A COUPLE BUILDERS RIGHT NOW ON SOME OF THESE PROPERTIES, THESE ABANDONED PROPERTIES. UH, THEY'RE ONE TO TAKE THESE JOBS OVER. UH, I'VE HAD THREE BUILDERS CALL . I GO MEET THEM AS SOON THEY CALL ME, BECAUSE I, I EXPLAINED TO THEM, IF YOU TAKE OVER AN ABANDONED JOB FOR US, THAT HELPS THE CITY OUT BECAUSE WE WANT THE CITY HOMES COMPLETED. I DON'T LIKE DRIVING AROUND HERE AND SEEING, UH, UNFINISHED HOMES CURRENTLY. UH, SO WHATEVER WE CAN DO TO ASSIST AND BUILDERS, UH, TO MOVE JOBS FORWARD TO LEADER, UH, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON THIS MATTER. SUPER. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS TO STAFF OR COUNCIL LEADING ON? NEXT ITEM [III.1. Consideration and Possible action on a recommendation to the City Council concerning amendments to Article 9.805, Chapter 9. Code of Ordinances, concerning the Building and Standards Commission's duties and powers.] IS CONSIDERATION OF POSSIBLE ACTION ON RECOMMENDATION CITY COUNCIL CONCERNING THE AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER NINE, CONCERNING THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS, DUTIES AND POWERS. UH, THE RED LINE WAS IN THE PACKET AND HANDED OUT, NO, THAT'S NOT THIS ONE. YEAH. THE CHAIR WILL ACCEPT A MOTION, RIGHT? YES, SIR. BECAUSE, BECAUSE I DID NOT GET TO THE LAST MEETING. CAN I JUST GET A QUICK BRIEF SUMMARY OF WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THIS, THIS THE THIRD ROUND, AND THIS, THE REDLINES REFLECT THE AMENDMENT. I ATTEMPTED TO DRAFT THE ORDINANCE TO REFLECT WHAT THE COMMISSION WANTED TO AMEND FROM THE LAST MEETING. AND THIS, AND THIS GOES BACK TO THEM WANTING TO GIVE US MORE RESPONSIBILITY. THAT'S WHAT THIS WAS FOR. RIGHT? OKAY. AND THAT WAS THE, THE AMENDMENT. CHAPTER NINE IS NOT A DEVELOPMENT RELATED ORDINANCE. SO WE'LL SEE WHERE IT GOES. BUT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR TONIGHT IS JUST, IF EVERYBODY HAS BEEN THROUGH THIS LIKES THE WAY THAT IT READS, WE'RE JUST MOVING THIS RIGHT ON THE CITY COUNCIL, CORRECT? CORRECT. UH, I'M, YES, SIR. , I, I'LL MOVE THAT WE, UH, APPROVE THE CORRECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE TO CHAPTER NINE, AS SEEN WITH THE RED, UH, RED LINE OF ADDITIONS TO THE, THIS HANDOUT FOR APPROVAL TO SEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL. I'LL SECOND A MOTION A SECOND. FURTHER DISCUSSION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. NOW, TECHNICAL STUFF. THIS IS GONNA HAPPEN A BUNCH. THIS IS A REAL RED LINE VERSION. OKAY. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S NOT TRACK CHANGE. AND WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING IN THE PAST WAS SENDING A TRACK CHANGE ORDINANCE TO, TO BE TO THE COUNCIL. WHEN THAT GETS IN THE CITY SYSTEM AND THEY'RE PUTTING TOGETHER THE PACKET, IT DOES, THE RED LINES DON'T SHOW. OKAY. AND THAT'S WHAT YOU SAW TONIGHT ON YOURS. SO WHAT I WILL DO IS, [00:15:01] UH, WITHOUT OBJECTION, A, I WILL PUT TOGETHER A COMPLETE RED LINE, WHICH SHOWS WHAT IT WAS BEFORE AND WHAT IT IS NOW. AND THAT'S NOT, THAT'S JUST NOT THIS. YOU GET, AND, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'LL SEND OVER TO THE, AND THEN I, I STOPPED BECAUSE THIS IS PART OF OUR NEW PROCESS. WHO DO I GIVE THAT TO? MITCH AND MITCH WILL, AND THEN MITCH WOULD PUT TOGETHER, BECAUSE MITCH HASN'T BEEN HERE, WHO'S GONNA PUT TOGETHER THE BACKUP FOR THIS? THE CA THE COUNT, THE, THE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THE BACKUP, THE COVER PAGE FOR THE COUNCIL'S PACKET. YEAH. I WOULD, I WOULD ASSUME THAT THAT'S A DISCUSSION THAT MITCH AND JORDAN WILL HAVE. UM, I THINK YOU WERE ON THE EMAIL THAT I WAS, THAT, YOU KNOW, JORDAN WOULD LIKE MITCH TO PICK A MORE ACTIVE ROLE AND, UM, YOU KNOW, SO THAT MIGHT BE MITCH'S RESPONSIBILITY. IT MIGHT BE SHE HAS ROBIN DO IT. I DON'T KNOW. YES. AND WITHOUT OBJECTION FROM THE COMMISSION, I'D LIKE TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE THIS WAS A COUNCIL REFERRAL. YOU, YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OF THE BACKGROUND ON THIS? NO. AND SO I'LL, I'LL JUST SIT DOWN WITH YOU AND, AND WHEN I, WHEN I DO THE DOCUMENTS, THE RED LINE AND A CLEAN COPY, I'LL EMAIL THAT TO YOU AND WE'LL SEE WHEN WE CAN SIT DOWN. OKAY? YES. SO YOU, Y'ALL, PLEASE. SO HERE'S MY PERCEPTION OF THE OLD IN THE NEW, WHAT A GOD. I COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT UNTIL I, OKAY. THERE. THANKS. YEAH. THAT MAY BE BETTER THAN A RED LINE. WELL, IT MAKES ME UNDERSTAND IT. YEAH. THANK YOU. CAN I SEE IT? NEXT ITEMS [III.2. Discuss a report from the subcommittee on permit expiration.] TO DISCUSS A REPORT FROM THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON PERMIT EXPIRATION, THERE ARE TWO DOCUMENTS THAT WE HANDED OUT ABOUT THAT. LAURA? YES. THE FIRST DOCUMENT, UH, AT THE TOP OF IT'S IN THE BOLD FONT, UH, SUBJECT OF THE B-S-B-C-S SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING. THAT'S IT. OCTOBER 19TH. YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS, UH, THIS IS ACTUALLY A SUMMARY OF THE MEETING WHEN IT TOOK PLACE, UH, OCTOBER 19TH. WHO WAS THERE? UH, THAT WE, WE COVERED SECTION THREE 10. UM, AND THEN, SO TO SUMMARIZE, IT SAYS, UM, CHANGING STANDARD PERMIT TIMELINES TO 24 MONTHS FOR STRUCTURES OVER 5,000 SQUARE FEET AND 18 MONTHS FOR UNDER OR EQUAL TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET, ADDING A DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP EXEMPTION, UH, REVIEWED BY THE COMMISSION FOR DELAYS DUE TO HEALTH, MILITARY DEPLOYMENT, OR OTHER VALID REASONS. CLARIFYING INSPECTION AND DEMOLITION RULES TO AVOID EXCESSIVE PENALTIES. AND, UH, SIMPLIFYING THE SECTION, WHICH WE'LL GET TO ON, UM, FEES. THERE WERE SEVERAL LINES. IT WAS VERY CONFUSING TO READ, BUT TURNS OUT WE, ALL WE REALLY NEED TO DO IS GET RID OF THAT AND JUST REFER TO, UH, THE APPROPRIATE SECTION. UM, AND THEN, UH, ONE RECOMMENDATION WAS FOR SOMEBODY TO CREATE A PERMITTING PROCESS FLOW CHART, UH, TO PLUG IN HERE SOMEWHERE. 'CAUSE IT WOULD MAKE THINGS A LOT EASIER. SO, UM, THAT'S THE SUMMARY, THE FOLLOWING PAGES. UM, TALK, TALK TO THE DETAIL. THE RED [00:20:01] LINE DOCUMENT HERE IS, UH, ASSOCIATED WITH THIS, SO LET'S NOT, AND, UM, , THIS WAS A LITTLE BIT PAINSTAKING, UH, TO EDIT. SO FEEDBACK IS ALWAYS WELCOME. UH, I LOOKED AT IT THIS MORNING TO MAKE SURE I WAS PREPARED, AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAD CHANGED WEREN'T IN THERE, SO I WENT THROUGH IT AGAIN. UM, AND SO THE WAY WE, THE WAY WE DID THIS WAS, UH, COMMISSIONER STANFORD PULLED OUT A COPY OF THE SECTION 3 1 10, AND THEN WE EDITED THAT SO THAT WE COULD THEN CREATED A WORD DOCUMENT OUT OF THAT. AND THEN WE EDITED, THAT'S HOW WE GOT TO HERE AND TRACK CHANGE. UH, SOME OF IT ANYWAY, THERE WERE SOME FORMATTING ISSUES. IT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A NIGHTMARE, BUT, UH, THAT'S FINE. UM, SO MOVING FORWARD, IF THERE'S A RECOMMENDATION ON A BETTER WAY TO HANDLE THESE KINDS OF CHANGES, I'M ALL OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS. UM, ALL RIGHT. SO DO YOU WANT ME TO WALK THROUGH SECTION K? YES. OKAY. SO LOOKING AT THE RED LINE, THE, YES, THAT'S THERE. YEAH. YEAH. EVERYBODY CAUGHT IT. ALL RIGHT. EXCELLENT. SO, ON SECTION K, UM, NUMBER ONE, WHAT WE DID WAS EDITED, ADDED A NUMBER ONE AND A NUMBER TWO, UM, TO SEPARATE OUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, BECAUSE BEFORE IT WAS JUST ONE LONG SENTENCE, AND IT WAS ALL 12 MONTHS. UM, PART OF THE REASON FOR THOSE WHO WEREN'T HERE FOR THE DISCUSSION, UH, UH, THE PUBLIC, SOME MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAME FORWARD AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, UH, A LARGE SQUARE FOOTAGE, UH, CONSTRUCTION SITES. THE WAY WE'RE RUNNING, EXCUSE ME, THEY WERE RUNNING ACROSS PERMITTING ISSUES NEEDED TO EXTEND THE PERMITS. AND SO, UH, THE COMMISSION AGREED TO LOOK AT THIS LANGUAGE AND, UH, MAKE PROPOSED SOME AMENDMENTS. SO THIS, WE TOOK B, WE SEPARATED OUT THE SENTENCE TO, UH, LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET. AND THE PROPOSAL IS TO CHANGE THAT FROM 12 TO 18 MONTHS. UM, AND THEN NUMBER TWO WAS GREATER THAN 5,000 SQUARE FEET IN AREA AND GIVE THEM 24 MONTHS FROM THE DATE OF APPROVAL. UM, THE ONLY REASON THAT MULTIFAMILY AND NON-RESIDENTIAL WAS CHANGED. OH, SEE, THAT SHOULD BE 18 MONTHS ON C NUMBER ONE. UM, THAT ONE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT ONE. AND, UM, SO IT WAS C AND D TWO, TWO DIFFERENT ITEMS FOR MULTIFAMILY. SO TO MAKE THE FORMATTING CONSISTENT, WE JUST ADDED ONE AND TWO FOR C AND LEAVING ALL MULTIFAMILY IN ONE SECTION. ALL RIGHT. SIMPLE ENOUGH. UH, NUMBER TWO WAS REALLY, UM, SOME BASIC CHANGING. THE WORD USED TO ISSUED. UM, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YES, PLEASE. WE'RE SAYING THE SAME THING, RESIDENTIAL AND INSIDE WORK PERMITS AND MULTIFAMILY. YES. IT'S THE EXACT SAME THING, RIGHT? YES. WHY, WHY DO WE NEED TO BREAK THEM OUT? CAN WE JUST SAY RESIDENTIAL, MULTIFAMILY, AND, 'CAUSE THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME REQUIREMENTS, RIGHT? THEY DO, EXCEPT, UM, IT WAS JUST C, C AND D. MM-HMM . WERE LIKE THAT. IT WAS JUST EASIER TO LEAVE RESIDENT AND THIS SEPARATED. OKAY. WELL, YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. I JUST, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE WE'RE SAYING THE SAME THING TWICE. IT'S OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. THE C AND THE D WERE ALREADY IN EXISTENCE. YEAH, NO, I, YEAH, I'VE GOT THAT. THAT'S WHY. COOL. OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S SEE. SO PARAGRAPH NUMBER TWO, UM, SIMPLE EDITS DOWN IN THE CENTER. UH, WE ADDED, UH, WHERE'S THE SENTENCE START? IT STARTS AT, PERMITS ISSUED UNDER PROVISION OF THIS ARTICLE SHALL EXPIRE BECOME NULL AND VOID WITH ALL PERMIT AND REVIEW FEES FORFEITED, UH, [00:25:02] IN ACCORDANCE WITH SUBSECTION J IF THE ABOVE WORK AUTHORIZED BY SUCH PERMIT IS NOT COMMENCED WITHIN 90 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF APPROVAL. AND, UH, THE PHRASE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP, UH, IS BEING PROPOSED THERE. AND THAT SAME PHRASE IS BEING PROPOSED. UH, A FOLLOWING SENSE. THERE'S AN ISSUE HERE TOO, UM, AT THE END OF THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE, AS FAR AS ABANDONMENT, I WILL LET EVERYBODY KIND OF TAKE A PEEK. AND COMMISSIONER CLIFTON'S MAKING NOTES. SO, SO THE HARDSHIP JUST REFERS AS DEALING WITH STARTING AFTER YOU'VE RECEIVED YOUR PERMIT, CORRECT? YEAH. AND JUST, YEAH. SO THIS EXPLAINS IT. SO IS, HOW DOES THAT GET TRIGGERED WITH THE FIRST ACTUAL INSPECTION THAT'S CALLED IN TO, TO THE CITY'S INSPECTION DEPARTMENT? WHAT, WHAT SETS THAT IN MOTION? THE WAY THEY GET IT BEFORE THE 90 DAYS. AND I ONLY ASK BECAUSE SOME OF THE PLACES WHERE I WORK, I GET THIS FROM DEVELOPERS, IF WE DON'T GET STARTED, THEY'LL CALL ME UP ON SHORT NOTICES, HEY, I'VE GOTTA START RIGHT NOW WHERE I'M GONNA HAVE TO RENEW MY PERMIT. CAN YOU BE THERE IN THREE DAYS? SO WE HAVE TO HAVE AN ACTUAL INSPECTION CALLED IN FOR A VALID PIECE OF WORK, JUST NOT A FLUFF INSPECTION. SO WHAT SETS US UP FOR KNOWING THAT WE'VE GONE PAST THAT 90 DAYS? IS IT AN INSPECTION GETS RECORDED? MITCH KNOWS THE ANSWER BETTER TO ME. IS THAT WHAT IT'S, WHAT WERE YOU ASKING? WELL, IF, IF I'M TRACKING THIS RIGHT AFTER SOMEONE GETS THEIR ACTUAL PERMIT, THEY'VE GOTTEN 90 DAYS. UNLESS THEY CAN PROVE A HARDSHIP TO ACTUALLY START THAT PROJECT. RIGHT? SO WHAT STARTS, WHAT TAKES THAT 90 DAY CLOCK AND SHUTS IT OFF AN ACTUAL INSPECTION THAT'S CALLED IN TO INSPECTION DEPARTMENT FOR A AVAILABLE INSPECTION, A FIELD MEET. WHO'S MONITORING THAT? 90 DAYS. THEY, UH, AN ACTUAL INSPECTION. WE WILL, WE'LL DO IT, UH, IF WE DO NOT, RIGHT NOW, WE ARE HAVING TO TRACK EVERYTHING MANUALLY. UH, OUR OFFICE PERSONNEL IS, UH, BUT THE NEW SYSTEM WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GETTING CIVIC PLUS. UH, WE'LL DO THAT FOR US. OKAY. HELP WITH ASSISTANCE. BUT YES, IT'LL BE AN INSPECTION THAT ASSESS THAT ALL. OKAY. PERFECT. SORRY. NO WORRIES. GOOD QUESTION. UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON NUMBER TWO THERE? WHAT, WHAT IS, UH, SUBSECTION F ABOVE WITHOUT HAVING THE WHOLE THING? I MEAN, THIS, YEAH, IT WAS IN THIS BLACK AND WHITE VERSION. UM, LET'S SEE. UH, THE WHOLE SECTION F IS ABOUT PERMIT ISSUANCE. OKAY. YOU WANT TO BORROW MY COPY? NO, I JUST, I JUST, I MEAN THAT, THAT WAS JUST STUCK IN THERE AND IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY REFERENCE. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT, YEAH, WHAT IT, IT, I MEAN, WHAT'S, YEAH, I HAD A WHOLE SECTION THREE 10 PRINTED OUT, BUT IT WAS ALL PRINTED IN GRAY SCALE, SO YOU CAN'T SEE. SO WE DID MAINLY WHERE THE HIGHLIGHTS WERE. YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE WORD, WHAT SUBSECTION THAT LOOKS LIKE, JIM, I GOT, WELL, THAT'S NOT YET. THIS ISN'T IT. WELL, HERE. SUBSECTION F PART EDITION. HERE'S THE GRAYSCALE PRINTOUT OF SUBSECTION F. IS THAT HERE? IT'S THE SAME THING. YES. YEAH, THAT'S FROM LAST, LAST MEETING. BIG REPORT, YEAH. . [00:30:09] AND IT JUST NOTE, JUST BEEN STUCK IN THERE LIKE THAT. ALSO, SUBSECTION F FOR ADDITIONAL DETAILS OR ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS OR, YEAH, I THINK THAT IS ANOTHER CASE OF THE EDITS THAT WE MADE. DISAPPEARED. SO, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA VOTE ON THIS TODAY. WE'RE JUST KIND OF REVIEWING IT BECAUSE I COULDN'T, DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE CITY EMAIL. I COULDN'T GET THE PACKET IN IN TIME. SO THIS IS REALLY, UH, WE'LL BRING BACK A BETTER COPY NEXT MONTH. BUT I DEFINITELY NEED GUIDANCE ON WHO TO WORK WITH AS FAR AS MAKING THE PROCESS EFFICIENT. UM, BECAUSE WE WERE USING GOOGLE DOCS TO EDIT THIS, I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT HAPPENED. 'CAUSE I EDITED IT AT LEAST TWICE. NEXT TIME I OPENED IT, IT WAS GONE. IT'S, SO NO SUGGESTIONS ON THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. JIM, I'M TRYING TO FIND WHERE YOU'RE POINT ON SUBSECTION THAT, UH, RIGHT. HEARSAY ABOVE AFTER THE, THE FIRST WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP. THEN THERE'S JUST A SENTENCE IN THERE THAT SAYS ALSO SEE SUBSECTION F ABOVE, RIGHT? I MEAN, FOR WHAT? YEAH, I THINK SOMETHING'S MISSING THERE. BUT WHAT DID SHE HAVE TO SAY? AND I DON'T HAVE LAST MONTH'S. UH, THAT'S OKAY. IT'S THIS WHOLE, YEAH, IT'S ALL ABOUT PERMIT ISSUANCE. I MEAN, EVEN IF WE JUST SAID, UH, CF ABOVE PARENTHESES, PERMIT ISSUANCE, AT LEAST TELL 'EM THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT F IS TALKING ABOUT. ISSUANCE OF PERMITS, YOU COULD SAY FOR ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS. LET'S SEE HERE. THAT'S FOR ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS OR FOR ADDITIONAL, THAT ONE. JUST THAT WORK. YEAH, EXACTLY. LET'S SEE. TRYING TO SEE IF IT WAS CAPTURED IN THIS DOCUMENT CHAPTER. YOU GOT THAT, I ASSUME YOU'RE, YOU'RE THE EDITOR, UH, HAVE BECOME THE EDITOR. . I SEE THERE'S CLAW MARK OVER HERE. THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD THING. OLD INDUSTRY FOR ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS. THEY JUST WANNA GET RID OF THAT. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. OKAY. OKAY. VERY GOOD. ALL RIGHT. YOU GUYS WANT ME TO KEEP WALKING THROUGH THESE OR ARE WE GOOD TO MOVE ON TO NUMBER THREE? UH, OKAY. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON NUMBER TWO? YEAH, JUST THINKING ABOUT THE WAY THIS READS, UH, WHERE YOU, WHERE THE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP THAT STUCK IN THERE WITHOUT ANY KIND OF, EVEN A COMMA BETWEEN THAT AND APPROVAL OR ORIGINALLY COMMENCED, MAYBE A COMMA. IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, IF THE WORK AUTHORIZED BY SUCH PERMIT IS NOT COMMENCED WITHIN 90 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF APPROVAL, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP, THERE'S NO COMMA THERE. DON'T PUT A COMM, YOU DON'T PUT A COMMA THERE. NO. SO THAT'S MY OPINION THEN. SO, AND, AND WORD WILL TELL YOU WHETHER YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT A COMMA THERE OR NOT. THEY IS DATE. LET'S TAKE THE SECOND ONE, , WHERE IT SAYS, AND WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT THIS AGAIN NEXT MONTH, WHERE IT SAYS THE WORK IS ORIGINALLY COMMENCED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP. SO YOU COMMENCED THE WORK WITH THE EXCEPTION. WELL, THE, BUT THE WHOLE SENTENCE IS, I MEAN, PERMITS, COMMENT PERMITS SHALL ALSO EXPIRE AND BECOME NULL AND VOID WITH ALL PERMIT AND REVIEW FEES FORFEITED. IF THE WORK AUTHORIZED BY SUCH PERMIT IS SUSPENDED OR ABANDONED FOR A PERIOD OF TWO MONTHS, AT ANY TIME AFTER THE WORK HAS ORIGINALLY COMMENCED, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A HARD OR DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP COMMENCED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP. [00:35:01] I DON'T KNOW IF NOW ONE THING YOU COULD DO WITH THAT TOO. UNLESS, UNLESS YOU DON'T NEED A COMMA, BUT I WOULD ADD, AS DETERMINED BY THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL WITH ME ON THAT CONCEPT, SOMEBODY'S GOTTA DETERMINE DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP. THAT'S TOOK A SHOT FOR THE DEFINITION, BUT I DIDN'T WANT IT, IT WAS IN AN . I, LET'S SEE, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE THE ORIGINAL. SHOULDN'T IT SAY IN, AS ORIGINALLY COMMENCED TO THE NEXT DEBT, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP GRANTED BY CITY STAFF OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M SUGGESTING. NOW, THE, WE'RE GONNA GET INTO, INTO MINUTIA NOW. RIGHT? BUT THE CONCEPT IS THAT WE MIGHT ADD AS DETERMINED BY BLANK. MM-HMM . AND I'VE DONE A TON OF COORDINATE STUFF LATELY. INTERESTINGLY, TWO THINGS ARE HAPPENING. THE ORDINANCE IS ALL OVER THE PLACE ABOUT DESIGNATED WHO. SECONDLY, THOSE PEOPLE SOMETIMES ARE NO LONGER HERE. , THE CITY CHENE. SO IN SOME DRAFTS I'VE WRITTEN, I'VE JUST CHANGED FOR P AND C STUFF I JUST SAID, AS DETERMINED BY THE CITY. IN SOME CASES IT'S THE CITY MANAGER, IT'S DESIGNEE. COULD YOU SEE, I'M USED TO SEEING THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL WHEN IT COMES TO CHAPTER THREE BUILDING STUFF. BUT IN ANY CASE, PICK A NAME. COULD YOU CALL IT THE DEPARTMENT? COULD YOU PICK THE DEPARTMENT AND APPROVE IT? NO, I, I LIKE THE CITY BECAUSE THAT IT'S GENERIC. OKAY. AND THAT'S, BUT IF YOU SAY THE CITY, WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS. WHO IS IT? WELL, THAT PERSON'S GONE. SO ANY, SO ANY, FOR INSTANCE, CODE ENFORCEMENT IS GONE. IT'S NOW CODE COMPLIANCE. SO MISS CITY WORKS FOR, I THINK WORKS IT WHEN STUFF MOVES AROUND. , LAURA. WELL, MY OTHER THOUGHT IS . IF WE INTRODUCE THE IDEA OF, OF A DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP, THEN THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME SORT OF PROCESS AND WHO TO CONTACT AND ABOUT. SO THESE OTHER ISSUES ARE GONNA COME UP FOR DISCUSSION. I, I THINK I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT AND DIVE IN AT ANY POINT. SOMETIMES, AND IT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE ISSUES, YOU GUYS HEARD THIS BEFORE, WE ADD TOO MUCH DETAIL, WHICH AMOUNTS TO DIRECTION TO STAFF. AND THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU, YOU CAN LEAVE IT AS SERIOUS, BUT WHAT, WHAT I THINK HELPED ME OUT WITH THIS MITCH, SOMEBODY'S GONNA COME IN AND SAY, TO SAY TO MITCH, THIS IS MY HARDSHIP. THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS. MM-HMM . YOU SEE THAT'S, I, I AGREE WITH THAT. OKAY. IT SHOULD BE OFFICIAL ION. WELL, DOES IT, IT ALREADY SAY THAT THE COMMISSION IS, WE ARE THE ONES THAT DECIDE THE HARDSHIP? NO, NO, NO. ISN'T THAT WHAT NO, NO. THIS ALL ADMINISTRATIVE. IT SAYS THAT ON HERE, BUT IT'S ALL ADMINISTRATIVE. IT'S ALL STAFF STUFF. YEAH. IT SAYS THAT RIGHT THERE. SO IS THAT FACT, OR IS THAT JUST NOTES FROM YOUR MEETING? IT'S JUST NOTES FROM THE MEETING. I AM LOOKING AT THE, THE MEETING NOTES, FRANK. OH, IT'S MISSING THIS IN THERE, IN THIS, WHICH LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT WE WERE THE COMMISSION THAT WE'RE DECIDING WHAT A HARDSHIP WAS. NO, NO. YEAH, IT'S HERE. CORRECT. RIGHT. BUT WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THIS DOCUMENT THAT KIND OF TALKS TO ALL THESE EDITS HAS THIS [00:40:01] LANGUAGE IN IT REVIEWED BY THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION WE'RE THE ONES THAT DECIDED I WOULD NOT DO, I WOULD NOT. IF, IF THAT'S THE PROPOSAL, IT DOESN'T SAY THAT. READ THE DOCUMENT. RIGHT. I AGREE. THE DOCUMENT, SOMETHING HAPPENED WITH THIS DOCUMENT AND THE EDITS, I WERE CHANGED MY OPINION ON, GO BACK UP HERE. I IT'S YOUR UNDERSTAND THE SUB, THE SUBCOMMITTEE, IT'S SUGGESTING THAT THE HARDSHIP WOULD BE DETERMINED BY THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION. WHAT IT SAYS IS, WELL, WHAT THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL WAS THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO THE RED LINE DOCUMENT, WAS THAT THEY WOULD BE REVIEWED BY THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION. AND I CAN'T SPEAK FOR, UH, COMMISSIONER STANDIFER, BUT HE, HE, WHAT HE WAS, I KIND OF THINK WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LIKE VARIANCE ARE VARIANCES. ARE WE GET TO REVIEW THOSE. SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS THINKING WHEN THIS CAME UP. DO YOU RECALL HAVE ANY INSIGHT ON THAT? YEAH, WE'RE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT APPROVING A CHANGE TO THE CITY CODE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. TO ME, THAT SHOULD BE DONE HERE, NOT BY THE INSPECTORS. BUT I, I MEAN OKAY, I AGREE WITH THAT. BUT I, I THINK THAT THE, THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED HERE DURING OUR MEETING WAS THAT THE, UH, THE DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP WOULD BE REVIEWED BY THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION THEN REVIEWED, NOT APPROVED, REVIEWED. AND WHO WOULD APPROVE IT? WHO WOULD APPROVE IT THEN TO THE CITY, CITY COUNCIL? NO, NO. IT SHOULD BE DONE RIGHT HERE. WE'RE GONNA REVIEW IT. WE SHOULD APPROVE IT. OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST DRAGGING STUFF OUT AND PUTTING IT IN FRONT. BUT IT SEEMS IF SOMEBODY'S, IF SOMEBODY'S RUNNING BEHIND ALREADY, IT SEEMS ODD TO PUT THEM OFF FOR AS MUCH AS 30 DAYS FOR US TO SAY YES OR NO. TO ME, IT MAKES MORE SENSE. IF THEY HAVE A HARDSHIP, THEY CAN'T START THIS PROJECT. THEY'VE HAD SOME KIND OF MECHANICAL FAILURE THAT THEY CAN'T DO IT. IF THEY COULD BRING THAT TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL OR WHOEVER AT THE CITY TO GO, LOOK, WE CAN'T START, 'CAUSE OUR OUR BACKHOE IS BROKEN. IT'S IN THE SHOP. IT'LL BE OUT TUESDAY. WE'LL GET STARTED. IF HE SAYS NO, THEN MAYBE THEY CAN COME TO US AGGRIEVED. BUT I THINK IT, IT MAKES MORE SENSE FOR HIM TO GO, YOU'RE GOOD. AND HE CAN APPROVE IT. RIGHT. HE'S JUST, THEY'VE JUST MOVED THE BALL DOWN THE ROAD A LITTLE BIT. NOW THEY'RE GONNA GET STARTED. IF THEY, I, I WOULD HOPE THAT IF THEY SAY WE'LL BE STARTED, WE'LL BREAK GROUND ON TUESDAY, NO LATER THAN FRIDAY, ON THURSDAY BEFORE HE GOES HOME, SOMEBODY GOES BY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE WORKING, WE'RE GOOD. HE GOES, BY THURSDAY AFTERNOON, NOTHING'S HAPPENED. YOU KNOW, THEN YOU CAN SEND HIM AN HOUR NOTICE TO SAY YOUR PERMITS. NO, THAT MAKES MORE SENSE TO ME THAN HIM HAVING TO GO SAY THEY DIDN'T START SEND IT TO US. IT'S GONNA BE ANOTHER 30 DAYS OR THREE WEEKS BEFORE WE LOOK AT IT. AND THE WHOLE TIME THE CLOCK IS RUNNING ON THEIR PERMIT. YEAH. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . SO, SO ARE YOU NOT GONNA NEED TO, TO CODIFY SOME WHAT CONSTITUTES AN UNDOCUMENTED HARDSHIP, BUT SOME PARAMETERS AROUND IT? I MEAN, YOU GOTTA HAVE THAT. OTHERS ARE YOU GONNA APPEAL, RIGHT. YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU APPEALING? AND, AND IT COULD BE VERY SUBJECTIVE FROM ONE CONTRACTOR TO ANOTHER IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT. YEAH. AND FURTHERMORE, THE CONTEXT OF THE CONVERSATION WAS ACTUALLY AROUND SIGNIFICANT HEALTH ISSUES THAT, UH, PEOPLE HAD HAD IN THE PAST. UH, CASE IN POINT GIVEN HERE WAS, UH, UH, SOMEBODY'S NEIGHBOR HAD A STROKE WHILE THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF, AND SO THERE WAS NOTHING THAT COULD BE DONE. UM, AND THEN, I MEAN, BROKEN EQUIPMENT, THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING YOU GOTTA THINK ABOUT. I MEAN, YOU CAN GO OUT AND RENT A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT. YEAH. I'M JUST PULLING SOMETHING UP THAT YEAH, THAT'S FINE. WELL, THAT'S, WE, THAT'S WE, IT'S WRITTEN NOW. YOU, YOU GOT TWO MONTHS AND THAT'S IT. UH, I MEAN, A LOT OF THE EXCUSES I HEAR FROM GILBERT IS THEY, THEY CAN'T [00:45:01] GET THEIRSELVES, YOU KNOW, TO TO, TO THE JUDGE. WE'RE NOT GONNA, I'M, I'M SORRY. YEAH, ME TOO. BUT A LOT OF THE PROBLEM IS, UH, I'M HEARING FROM BUILDERS THAT THEY CAN'T GET SUBS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE CONTRACTORS TO THE JOB SITE FOR WHATEVER REASON. IS THAT, DOES THAT CONSTITUTE A HARDSHIP? I MEAN, LIKE HE WAS SAYING, I WOULD ALMOST, THAT'S GONNA FALL ON, ON ME, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, WHICH IS FINE. UH, I'M NOT GONNA HAVE A LIST OR SOMETHING THAT SAYS THIS CONSTITUTES A HARDSHIP. BUT THIS RIVER, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK NOT GETTING A CREW, IT MAKE SENSE FOR THIS. 'CAUSE THIS IS, YOU NEED ONE INSPECTION IN 90 DAYS IF YOU CAN'T GET ONE INSPECTION, AND THEN IF YOU CAN'T GET CREWS FOR THREE MONTHS, THAT HITS YOUR END OF TIME ONE O'CLOCK. BUT TO NOT GET A CREW OUT IN 90 DAYS, THAT'S JUST, THAT'S TO ME THAT SOUNDS LIKE, AND MOST OF US ARE NOT GETTING PERMITS FOR, FOR LARGE CONSTRUCTION. ONE OF US KNOWS SOME. I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT, BUT I WOULD THINK IF I'M COMING TO THE CITY TO SAY I WANNA BUILD A HOUSE ON THAT LOT, I NEED A PERMIT. IF I, I SHOULD HAVE A CREW READY TO GO. IF I KNOW MY CREWS ARE OUT STATE FOR THE NEXT THREE MONTHS, WHY WOULD I COME GET A PERMIT TODAY? THIS THE SPIRIT OF THIS IS IF YOU GET SICK A MONTH BEFORE IT, YOU, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO START OR YOU GET DEPLOYED 20, 30 DAYS BEFORE HE SUPPOSED, THAT'S THE SPIRIT OF THIS HARDSHIP. NOT BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T GET THEIR CREW THERE IN 90 DAYS. NO. RIGHT. AND AGAIN, I THINK YOU'RE THE BEST ONE TO SAY THAT'S A LEGITIMATE REASON. AND IF THEY CAN'T GET THEIR CREWS AND YOU TELL 'EM NO, THEY CAN COME TO US AND TELL US THE SAME THING AND WE'LL TELL THEM, NO, WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE. THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT GONNA COME TO HIM AND TELL HIM, WE CAN'T GET OUR CREWS, MY CLOCK'S UP. HE'S GOING TO CATCH IT. YEAH. OH YEAH. AND I GO BY THERE IN ABOUT A WEEK AFTER THEY'VE CAUGHT HIM WHEN HE'S GOT THE TIME, AND THEN HE'S GONNA SEND HIM A NOTICE. SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA VOLUNTARILY SAY, I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE MY DATES. RIGHT. THEY'RE GONNA KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT UNTIL THEY GET CAUGHT. RIGHT. AND AT THAT POINT, HE'S GONNA GO OUT AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA GIVE HIM WHATEVER B******T EXCUSE THEY'VE GOT. AND THEN THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE HEADED. SO I THINK THE ONLY TIME THAT THEY WOULD NEED, I MEAN, IF THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE DEPLOYED, IF THEY KNOW SOMEONE'S GOT SICK, THEN THEY'RE GONNA COME TO HIM AHEAD OF TIME AND THEN THEY CAN SAY, LISTEN, CAN WE PAUSE THIS FOR X AMOUNT? AND THEN I THINK THAT WOULD BE FINE FOR HIM TO MAKE THAT CALL. YOU KNOW, HE'S CERTAINLY CAPABLE OF IT, BUT AFTER THE FACT, WE SHOULDN'T TANGLE HIM OPEN THAT. I DON'T THINK. ALSO, UH, TO YOUR POINT ABOUT, UH, GETTING SUBS OUT, IT WAS ONE REASON FOR EXTENDING THE TIMELINES TO BEGIN WITH IN, UH, SECTION K ONE B. AND SEE, IT'S JUST, WE, WE WERE HAVING A LOT OF ISSUES WITH JOBS GOING OVER YEARS. THE MATERIALS NOW TOO. LEAD TIME NOW FOR LIKE A POWER PANEL IS LIKE EIGHT MONTHS. OH, IT'S RIDICULOUS. ON SOME, SOME MATERIALS THAT YOU GOT ORDER NOW. AND, UH, I GOT, I GOT CUSTOMERS THAT ARE WAITING FOR STREETLIGHT POLES FOR SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS. WOW. AND THEY'RE NOT COMING FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY. THEY'RE COMING FROM CALIFORNIA, WHICH, WELL, I GUESS IT IS, BUT , THEY SPEAK OF THEIR LANGUAGE. YEAH. UH, THAT, THAT'S ONE OF THE, THAT'S A BIG ISSUE TOO, IS, UH, MATERIAL. IT IS SINCE COVID. UH, IT WAS REALLY BAD AFTER COVID, DURING COVID, BUT IT HAS GOTTEN BETTER. BUT WE STILL, I STILL SEE ISSUES WITH MATERIAL, UH, FOR WHATEVER SHOWER GLASSES. ALMOST EVERY BUILDER IS SHOWER GLASSES. WOW. FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY ALWAYS, THEY ALL GIVEN THE SAME EXCUSE I JUST RUN BEHIND. GOOD. TO MOVE ON. WELL, LET ME SEE IF WE CAN, I THINK THERE'S I THREE OF US THAT THINK IT OUGHT TO BE ADMINISTRATIVE. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT LAURA, YOU THINK IT OUGHT TO COME BACK TO BUILDING IT STANDARDS FOR HARDSHIP? I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE WHERE WE ARE. I THINK IT'S FINE GOING, THAT'S WHAT'S WHAT I MEAN, I THINK IT'S FINE GOING TO, THERE'S THREE OF US THAT THINK IT OUGHT TO BE THAT. BECAUSE I THINK MITCH IS, MITCH WILL HAVE A HEAVY HAND AND HE'LL SAY YES OR NO. OKAY. I JUST FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO GIVE HIM THE ABILITY TO, IF SOMETHING HE DOESN'T WANT TO MAKE THE CALL ON, THEN HE CAN SEND IT TO US. OKAY. SO IT'S, THERE'S AT LEAST FOUR OF US THAT ARE ADMINISTRATIVE. FINE. NOW THE ISSUE, DO YOU WANT TO NAME THE BUILDING OFFICIAL OR CITY? IF YOU SAY CITY, DOES THAT OPEN UP TO WHERE THEY CAN SAY, WELL, [00:50:01] I TALKED TO SUCH AND SUCH 'CAUSE THEY KNOW HE'S GONE . OR DO WE NEED TO PIN IT DOWN TO, I I STILL THINK A DEPARTMENT, I THINK IF WE PIN IT DOWN TO A DEPARTMENT INSTEAD OF THE CITY IN GENERAL, THEN AT LEAST WE'RE IDENTIFYING WHICH DEPARTMENT THEY RAN TO. THEY'RE PROBABLY ALWAYS GONNA HAVE A BUILDING OFFICIAL. I THINK AND, AND Y'ALL HAVEN'T READ THE INTERNATIONAL CODES. UH, YOU HAVE SOME THE, THE, THE CALLS ARE MADE BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE THAT THICK. THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT WORKS. WELL ANSWER, ANSWER ME THIS 'CAUSE I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH, WITH, WITH, UH, THE CITY HIERARCHY. WHEN WE SAY BUILDING OFFICIAL, WE MEAN MITCH, IF MITCH'S IS OUT SICK OR HAS GONE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME, SOMEONE STEPS INTO YOUR POSITION. CORRECT? UH, JAR , WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A TIME WHERE THE BUILDING OFFICIAL IS. THE CITY WILL ALWAYS PUT A NAME TO THAT, THAT TITLE. IF SOMEBODY WALKS IN AND YOU'RE GONE AND THEY SAY, I NEED TO TALK TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, THEY'RE GONNA, SOMEBODY'S WALKING TO THE FRONT. RIGHT. SO YEAH, THAT PART'S WILL BE DIRECTED MAJORITY. CORRECT. OKAY. SO LAURA, I THINK JUST A CONSENSUS THAT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A DOCUMENTED HARDSHIP AS DETERMINED BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, IS THAT WE OKAY WITH THAT? YEAH, THAT'D BE OKAY. WELL, SO BUILDING OFFICIAL DETERMINED OR APPROVED, THERE BE ANY NOT DETERMINED, DETERMINED PARAMETERS AROUND IT. THEY'RE GONNA BE CODIFIED. THEY JUST GONNA BE SUBJECTIVE. YES, SIR. ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. YES. OKAY. IS THERE GONNA BE AN APPEAL? THAT'S WHAT THEY PAY THIS GUY FOR. OKAY. IS THERE, IS THERE AN APPEAL PROCESS GONNA BE AN APPEAL PROCESS? THAT WAS DE WE WE CAN'T PUT TOGETHER, I DIDN'T GET INTO THIS. HE'S GOT, OKAY, IT'S QUICK, QUICK VOTE, BUT I'M GO THE DEFINITION, THAT'S JUST TO MOVE ON. UH, WE'RE GONNA ADD AS DETERMINED BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THAT? OH, IT'S UNANIMOUS. OKAY. THANK YOU. SUPER. ANYTHING ELSE ON NUMBER THREE? LET ME JUST SAY ON PARENTHESES THREE, WHEN YOU ELIMINATED THAT WHOLE SENTENCE, I, I COULD FIGURE OUT WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IT MEANT. SO, RIGHT. AND SO IN LAST MONTH'S MEETING, THERE WAS A LONG CONVERSATION ABOUT PERMITTING FEES AND WHEN THEY DO AN EXTENSION AND, UH, WE GOT A VERY SIMPLE, UH, RESPONSE FROM THE CITY SAYING, WELL, ACTUALLY IT'S JUST THIS AND THIS. SO WHEN I READ THIS, I THOUGHT WE JUST SHOULD STRIKE THAT AND REFER TO THE FEE SECTION. YOU, YOU OKAY WITH THAT? AND THEN THAT LEAVES THE LAST SENTENCE. UH, CAN I GO BACK TO TWO FOR A QUICK SECOND? SURE. PARENTHESES TWO. YES, SIR. IT'S A DEAL FOR MITCH. TWO. LAST SENTENCE COMPLETED. WITHOUT DOCUMENTED SPECS REQUIRED BY THIS ARTICLE, APPLICABLE IN THE TERM IT'S MODEL BUILDING CODE. AND YOU SAY TAKE IT OUT. WELL, IF YOU LEAVE IT BUILDING CODE, THAT'S MY THOUGHT IS ADD INTERNATIONAL CODE CONGRESS CODES. THAT'S WHAT MODEL CODE MEANS. I WOULD ASSUME, BUT I ASSUME . SO WHAT ARE WE ASKING FOR? MODEL'S GOT A LINE HERE. HUH? MODEL'S GOT A LINE. TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT, WHAT YEAH. BUILDING CODE ARE THEY REFERRING TO? IF YOU LEAVE JUST BUILDING CODE, THAT MAY MEAN ONE OF THEM THE BUILDING CODE AS OPPOSED TO PLUMBING, GAS, ALL THE REST OF 'EM. ELECTRICAL. SO WHAT WE HAVE ADOPTED, UH, IT'S ALL INTERNATIONAL CODE CONGRESS COULD SAY ADOPTED INTERNATIONAL CODE CONGRESS CODE, RIGHT? YES. YOU OKAY WITH THAT? YES. [00:55:01] OKAY. SO CAN WE JUST CHANGE, CAN WE JUST CH CHANGE, GET RID OF MODEL OF BUILDING AND JUST PUT IRC CODE? WELL, IT'S NOT IRC, IT'S, IT'S ALL, IT'S, IT'S ALL OF IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST THE IR CITY. GOTCHA. IT'S THE, IF YOU PRINT THEM, THEY'RE, OH YEAH. THAT'S WHY I DON'T DO BUILDING CODE. I MEAN OTHER CODE INSPECTIONS. , INTERNATIONAL CODE CONGRESS CODES. OKAY. YOU PUT ME ON THAT CONCEPT. YEAH, I AGREE WITH THE CONCEPT. I JUST, I SEEK CONGRESS APPLICABLE INTERNATIONAL CODE CONGRESS CORRECT. CODES. SO WE'LL STRIKE THAT. THERE'S A TO INCLUDE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE. THANK YOU, MA'AM. YOU'RE WELCOME. ON CODE FOUR. YES SIR. EVERYBODY READY? MM-HMM . ALL RIGHT. SO FOUR, BACK TO THIS. SO WE CHANGED THE WORD CONSIDERED, OH ACTUALLY WE JUST TOOK OUT THE WORD CONSIDERED. UM, SO THAT IT READS ANY PERMIT THAT HAS NOT RESULTED IN A COO WITHIN THE REQUIRED DEADLINE AFTER ISSUANCE SPECIFIED SHALL BE PERMANENTLY REVOKED. I FELT LIKE CONSIDERED DIDN'T ADD ANYTHING TO IT, IT WAS MORE DIRECT. UM, THE NEXT ONE IF APPLICABLE, CITY CODE AUTHORITY. AND, UH, THAT WAS, WE STRUCK THAT PUT CITY INSPECTOR AND THEN, UH, I WROTE A NOTE ON THERE. RIGHT? SO THEN ONE OF THE PROPOSALS IS TO CHANGE THAT TO BUILDING OFFICIAL OR CITY, BUT WE SHOULD BE CONSISTENT. YEAH. CITY BUILDING OFFICIAL. WELL, LET ME, THERE'S SOME RELATED ISSUES. MITCH, ON THIS, HAVE YOU SEEN MY DRAFT SAY CODES? NO, I'LL GET IT TO YOU. I'VE, I'VE, THE, THE BUILDING STANDARDS COMMISSION AUTHORIZES LAST YEAR MADE A DRAFT, AN AMENDMENT TO THE UNSAFE BUILDING CODE AND THE UNSAFE BUILDING SECTION OF CHAPTER THREE. AND I'VE DONE THAT AND I GAVE IT TO, UH, JORDAN, I'LL GET IT TO YOU. ONE OF THE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, AGAIN, HAS TO DO WITH THIS TERM CODE ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY. IN THE PAST, AND YOU MAY KNOW THIS, AND THIS MAY BE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE, WE'VE HAD PROBLEMS WITH UNSAID BUILDINGS AND THAT'S JUST WHAT THIS SECTION RELATES TO FOR YEARS, FOLKS THINK THAT'S THE CODE ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY IS THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. THOSE GUYS DON'T KNOW BUILDINGS. AND YOU'VE ADDED, WHICH I THINK IS AN IMPROVEMENT. CITY INSPECTOR SPECTER. I THINK IF YOU, YOU COULD ADD EITHER CITY BACK THERE OR PUT THE BUILDING OFFICIAL IN. MITCH, WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT? I THINK THAT SHOULD BE THE BUILDING, THE CITY BUILDING OFFICIAL. OKAY. IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE IF WE, IF WE SAY THE CITY INSPECTOR, HOW MANY CITY INSPECTORS ARE THERE? RIGHT NOW? I'M JUST TWO COUNTY. BUT IF CITY, THE CITY INSPECTORS ARE OFF ON A CONFERENCE FOR A WEEK, IF WE LEAVE A CITY INSPECTOR, NOBODY CAN, NOBODY CAN DO THAT WORK. NO. WELL, EXCUSE BECAUSE IT IS VERY SPECIFIC. IF WE MAKE IT BUILDING OFFICIAL, IF MITCH ISN'T HERE, THEN JORDAN CAN DO IT. I THINK WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT. CITY BUILDING OFFICIAL. YEAH. YEAH. ALRIGHT, SO THAT LEAVES THE LAST ONE IN FOUR. [01:00:01] UM, THIS ONE WAS ABOUT, UM, DEMOLITION. WHAT IT SAID BEFORE. LEMME LOOK AT THIS. WHAT IS IT? OH, THERE IT IS. SO IT ORIGINALLY SAID, WORK THAT HAS BEEN COMPLETED WITHOUT DOCUMENTED INSPECTION SHALL BE SUBJECT TO DEMOLITION. AND WE ADDED THAT LAST PHRASE, NECESSARY ENOUGH TO WHERE NEEDED INSPECTIONS CAN BE COMPLETED WITH THE IDEA THAT THE WHOLE THING MAY NOT NECESSARILY NEED TO BE DEMOLISHED. THE NEXT SENTENCE MAKES MY EYES BLEED. , CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS WAS I CAN'T TRACK THAT AT ALL. THAT WAS ALREADY IN THERE. UM, LET'S SEE. WHAT, WHAT IS THE DAKOTA CITY COUNCIL REQUIRED FOR? THAT FEELS LIKE IT SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE ELSE. THAT WAS LANGUAGE ALREADY IN THERE. UM, I I JUST FEEL LIKE YOU JUST NEED TO GO IF YOU CAN'T GET A PERMIT. I MEAN, IF YOU'VE DONE THE WAY THIS READS, HELP ME, I'M NOT THIS FREE. IF YOU'VE DONE WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT, IT'S SUBJECT TO DEMOLITION AND YOU'VE ADDED AND THIS AND AN IN ADDITION, YOU CAN'T NO, I DIDN'T ADD THAT. YOU CAN'T MOVE FORWARD. THAT WAS ALREADY THERE. NOT GOING TO THE CITY COUNCIL AT ALL. THAT LANGUAGE WAS ALREADY THERE. RIGHT. OKAY. OH, I I'M JUST, YEAH, I THINK THEY NEEDS TO GET OUTTA THERE. I I DON'T DISAGREE. STRIKE. UH, SO STRIKE BOOK SENTENCES OR? SURE. JUST THE FIRST ONE. OKAY. LET, LET ME JUMP IN AND MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING PLEASE. IF THIS WOULD BE A STRUCTURE THAT WAS STARTED. LET'S JUST SAY THE COMPANY COMES IN AND TAKES OVER A HOUSE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN STARTED. THEY FIND OUT THAT ONE OF THE ELECTRICAL INSPECTIONS WASN'T DONE. THEIR SHEET ROCK ALREADY UP. THEY DON'T HAVE TO TEAR THE WHOLE HOUSE DOWN. THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO REMOVE ALL THE SHEET ROCK SO THAT THEY CAN BACK THE PROCESS UP AND START DOING THE INSPECTIONS AS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO. IF FOR SOME REASON THEY CAN'T DO THAT, THEN WE'RE GONNA FALL BACK TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO SAY WE NEED TO TEAR THE WHOLE THING DOWN. IT'S, IT'S A DANGEROUS STRUCTURE. IS THAT NO, THAT'S, NO, NO, THAT'S NOT THE WAY I READ THAT. WELL THAT'S, YEAH. DANGER STRUCTURES TEAR DOWN BOTTOM LINE. AND IT'S SAYS WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS Y'ALL ADDED THE NECESSARY ENOUGH, RIGHT? CORRECT. YEAH. SO BEFORE IT SAID IF, IF IT'S BEEN DONE WITHOUT A PERMIT, IT'S SHALL BE SUBJECT TO DEMOLITION PERIOD. YES. DEMOLITIONS. SO IS THAT A PARTIAL DEMOLITION? IS THAT TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF THE STRUCTURE? THAT'S WHY SHE ADDED THIS NEW LAW. I UNDERSTAND, BUT IF, IF, IF YOU FOLLOW, IF IT TRACKS IT'S SUBJECT TO DEMOLITION, IN ADDITION, THE CITY COUNCIL'S GONNA HAVE TO APPROVE THAT THAT DEMOLITION. THAT'S WHERE I READ THAT. CITY COUNSEL SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO SEE THAT. I MEAN, SHE'S GONNA TELL THEM HOW MUCH OF THAT HOUSE TO TEAR DOWN WHAT I KNOW. BUT WHAT I'M GETTING AT, WE'VE ADDED THE RED LINE IN THERE, WHICH KIND OF CHANGED THE STRUCTURE OF THE PARAGRAPH. 'CAUSE WITHOUT IT THEY DIDN'T HAVE, THEY'VE DONE WORK WITHOUT, WITHOUT THE NECESSARY DOCUMENTATION. THEY DIDN'T GET THE INSPECTIONS. IT'S SUBJECT TO DEMOLITION THE NEXT SENTENCE WITHOUT THE RED LINE IN THERE. RIGHT. WOULD SAY IN ADDITION THE CITY COUNCIL'S GONNA HAVE TO APPROVE THIS DEMOLITION. I THINK WE CAN GET RID OF THE, IF WE'RE GONNA SAY, IF THEY DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, THEY CAN FOREGO THE BOTTOM HALF OF THIS PARAGRAPH. WE COULD DELETE THIS PARAGRAPH. THE BOTTOM HALF. I MEAN FROM IN ADDITION. YEAH. THAT'S WHAT FOR YEAH, I AGREE. CUT TO COUNTS ON THAT ONE. HMM. YEAH, WE DON'T [01:05:01] NEED THAT THERE. THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO GRAY AREA. MEAN SAYS IT'S GOTTA COME OUT FOR THE INSPECTIONS. IT'S GOTTA COME OUT. WHY WOULD, WHY WOULD THEY GO TO CITY COUNCIL FOR ANYTHING? I, I THINK WITH THE ADDITION OF THIS RED LINE THAT THEY'VE ADDED, WE CAN GET RID OF THE LETTERS OF THAT PARAGRAPH. YEAH, TAKE IT OUT. CLIFF, YOU OKAY? YEAH. WOW. NICE WORK FOLKS. THAT'S GREAT STUFF. Y'ALL DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ON SETBACK AND HIDE PERFORM. OKAY. I THINK, I THINK IF YOU REMEMBER MY MOTION WAS VERY PARTICULAR AND IT WAS AMENDED , I WOULD, I WOULD MAKE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS. ONE, I THINK LARS GOT SOME EDITS AND NUMBER TWO. YES. GREAT WORK. . NO, I MEAN THIS IS GOOD STUFF. WE GOT THE SUMMARY DOCUMENT AND IT'S JUST TIMING. IT'S JUST TIMING TO GET STUFF AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT AT THE END OF THE MEETING. RIGHT. AND THEN A GREAT RED LINE. AND THEN OF COURSE, I GUESS MY THIRD POINT WOULD BE BILLING STANDARDS COMMISSION IS ADDED AGAIN WITH SOME GREAT EDIT. OKAY. MR. CHAIRMAN, DO YOU MIND IF I ADDRESS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I WAS ASKING, UH, MS. LAUVER ASK YOU LIKE, WHERE SHOULD THESE THINGS BE WRITTEN OR WHATNOT? UM, AS YOU GUYS WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH, IT JUST REMINDED ME HOW IMPORTANT THE DISCUSSION BOARD COULD BE FOR THESE TYPES OF DISCUSSIONS. UM, JUST JUST A CASE IN POINT, UM, I, I'M PUTTING FORTH AN AMENDED ORDINANCE ON THIS NEXT CITY COUNCIL MEETING. I DROPPED SIX PDFS OR FOUR PDFS INTO THE DISCUSSION BOARD, ADDED MY EXPLANATION OF WHY I WAS ADDING 'EM. PAUL ROBERTS CAME BACK, GAVE HIS OPINION AND NORMA MADE HER OPINION. AND THEN PAUL CAME BACK AND MADE HIS OPINION. AND THEN KEVIN CAME IN AND MADE HIS OPINION. AND THEN I CAME BACK AND SAID, LOOK, BASED ON ALL THESE OPINIONS, THIS MY OPINION, AND WE'RE ACTUALLY HAVING A VERY ROBUST DISCUSSION. BUT WHAT'S NICE ABOUT THAT IS IT'S ALL DOCUMENTED FOR FULL TRANSPARENCY FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE IT'S THERE INDEFINITELY. AND THAT BECOMES THE WORKPLACE WHERE YOU GUYS CAN GO BACK AND FORTH AND HAVE THESE TYPES OF CONVERSATIONS. ALRIGHT. AND UH, I WOULD JUST, I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE ONLY COMMISSIONS THAT THE DISCUSSION BOARD'S NOT BEING UTILIZED. AND, UH, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY DISCUSSIONS FROM THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION. WE ALL, EVERYBODY HADN'T ACCESS TO THEIR EMAILS YET. WHAT I THINK YOU MAKE RAISED GREAT POINTS. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT. AND, AND THE WAY I'M GONNA DO THAT, UH, PROCEDURALLY IS TO GO BACK TO COUNSEL AND STAFF REPORTS AND TALK ABOUT A BUNCH OF THE STUFF. OKAY, NO PROBLEM. BUT, BUT I AGREE WITH YOUR POINT, BUT THERE'S OTHER STUFF. YEAH, I WAS JUST ADDRESSING MR. DER'S QUESTION, BUT I PROBABLY DID IT INAPPROPRIATELY. APOLOGIZE. NO, I HAVE A QUESTION. YES MA'AM. SLASH COMMENT. UM, SO, AND ACTUALLY, UH, SO BY COPYING THE CODE, CREATING WORD DOCUMENT, DOING A RED LINE THAT IS SUFFICIENT FOR CITY PURPOSES, I ASK YOUR QUESTION IN A WAY THAT I'M TRYING TO HELP THE CITY SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK IN AND RE SO WHO, YEAH, WE'RE GOOD NOW WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS FOR THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT. OKAY. OKAY. THAT'S FINE. FAIR ENOUGH. YEAH. OKAY. SUPER. BUT I APPRECIATE THE REMINDER ABOUT THE DISCUSSION BOARD AND I HAVE BEEN WATCHING YOUR UH, THE COUNCIL DISCUSSION. SO I DO APPRECIATE THAT. AND I DO SEE THE VALUE IN THAT BECAUSE THEN WHEN YOU COME TO THE MEETING, IT'S ALREADY BEEN KIND OF DIGESTED AND HASHED OUT. SO THE MEETINGS COULD BE SHORTER. THEORETICALLY YOU SPEND YOUR TIME ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. RIGHT? IT'S STILL SPENT TIME. COUPLE OF THOUGHTS. MOST OF US DON'T USE THE BULLETIN BOARD. I DO. AND I'VE USED IT WITH P AND C AND NOTHING HAPPENED. I DON'T THINK I'VE PUT SOMETHING UP FOR BUILDING AND STANDARDS BECAUSE I'M RIGHT. WHAT I WANT TO PUT IN THE PACKET [01:10:01] AND GET IT IN THE PACKET ON THAT CON YOU WITH ME ON THAT CONCEPT INSTEAD OF BULLETIN BOARD. AND UNFORTUNATELY IT MIGHT BE LONG, SOME OF THE STUFF ON THE COUNCIL'S BULLETIN BOARD IS PRETTY LONG, BUT IT DOES HAVE A LIMIT ABOUT HOW MANY, I THINK RIGHT? IT HAS THE LIMIT ABOUT HOW MANY CHARACTERS IT'LL TAKE. SO SOME OF THE STUFF LIKE A RED LINE IS WAY TOO LONG. SECOND, SECOND POINT. SO IF YOU WANT TO PUT A DOCUMENT ABOUT THIS CHEATING, WHATEVER IN THE BULLET BOARD, YOU CAN, MY THOUGHT IS THAT THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND I UNDER Y'ALL DID FINE WITH THIS AND WE'VE GOT ADMINISTRATIVE STUFF TO SORT THROUGH THE TIMING. TYPICALLY A SUBCOMMITTEE WOULD PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER AND WE GET IT IN THE PACKET. RIGHT? RIGHT. HOW THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST WAS THAT ROY WOULD PUT IT IN YOU WITH ME. 'CAUSE HE WAS, HE'S SITTING IN, HE SITTING IN WITH THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND SO THE STAFF DIDN'T SIT IN WITH THE SUB A LOT OF STUFF. BUT MY THOUGHT IS IF YOU HAVE A SUBCOMMITTEE, THE SUBCOMMITTEE STUFF GETS IN THE PACKET AND THEN FOLKS COULD DO THEIR BULLET BOARD THING WITHOUT IT. RIGHT. WITHOUT A PROBLEM WITH OPEN MEETINGS WITH ME ON THAT CONCEPT. RIGHT. OKAY. LET ME, WE, WE WILL COME BACK TO THIS AT THE COMMUNICATING AT THE END TOO. PROCESS FOR THIS. I THOUGHT I HEARD NOTHING. NO ORDINANCES ARE GONNA GET DONE. MAYBE CHAPTER NINE GETS DONE. BUT THIS IS DEVELOPMENT RELATED. THIS ISN'T GONNA HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER JANUARY. CORRECT. I THINK IF, I THINK THAT IS THE HOPE THAT THINGS GET IMPLEMENTED AFTER THE CO-DIAGNOSIS. WELL LET ME THANK YOU SIR. THAT'S WHY I ALWAYS GET TO YOU WHEN I HAVE A PROBLEM. YOU ALWAYS CHOOSE THE RIGHT WORDS. I KNOW THE CITY MANAGER WANTS TO DO THAT. THERE'VE BEEN, THERE'S A TON OF REFERRALS. THIS IS ONE OF 'EM. CHAPTER NINE WAS REFERRAL. THIS WAS A REFERRAL, BUT BUILDING ITS STANDARDS ACTUALLY TOOK THIS ISSUE UP LAST YEAR AND WAS WAITING FOR THE STAFF TO COME FORWARD WITH SOMETHING. SO IT TENDS TO BE BOTH THINGS. IS THE THOUGHT MAYBE THAT WE WAIT TILL OUR JANUARY MEETING TO BRING THIS BACK. I THINK THAT GIVES OUR SUBCOMMITTEE PLENTY OF TIME TO GET IT TUNED UP AND DO IT DONE. IT MIGHT TAKE THAT LONG . YEAH. WELL I HAVE SOME REALLY BUSY WEEKS COMING UP AND I WON'T BE HERE NEXT MONTH. WE DON'T HAVE, YEAH. AND AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PLANNING AND ZONING COMMITTEE PLANNED FOR THIS MONTH. I THINK EVERYBODY'S GOING INTO CLEANING UP THE BEST THEY CAN. WELL, P C'S NOT MEETING. THAT'S WHAT I HEARD. I BELIEVE WE DON'T HAVE A PC IN THE NEXT WEEK. I THOUGHT WE HAD A TOWN TO BACKUP UP. UH, BUT WHAT IF I HEARD, WELL, YOU'D HAVE TO GO ON, BILL A FORM CHECK , GO ON THE CITY WEBPAGE, SEE SOMETHING POSTED, WHICH IS PART OF COMMUNICATING. BUT WE'LL GET, MAYBE GET TO A BUNCH OF COMMUNICATING ISSUES FROM MITCH THAT I'M HERE AT THE END. ALRIGHT, SO WHAT I'M, I'M I'M HEARING IS CONSENSUS IS THAT THE SUBCOMMITTEE WILL COME BACK WITH THE EDITS AT OUR JANUARY MEETING. OKAY. NOW WHAT WE WILL HAVE AT THAT MEETING WILL BE ANOTHER RED LINE. CORRECT. WHO'S GONNA DRAFT THE ORDINANCE? . I DO NOT HAVE THE ANSWER FOR THAT. AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER IN JANUARY, THERE'S A GUY ON THE COMMISSION THAT HAS WRITTEN A TON OF ORDINANCES IN THE LAST YEAR THAT MIGHT HELP. OKAY. I'M SERIOUS. [01:15:03] 'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT AN ORDINANCE GUY AND GEORGE IS NOT WITH US. USED TO BE ONE STOP SHOP. EVERYTHING WENT IN AND OUT. ROY, THAT'S NOT THE CASE. OKAY, WE'LL SEE. BUT AGAIN, I APPRECIATE, SO WE'LL BE BACK IN JANUARY. CORRECT. ALRIGHT. AND I WILL TRY, WELL IN ADVANCE OF THAT TO GET THINGS POSTED, UH, FOR YOU FOR THE PACKET AND THEN WE CAN GET IT ON THE DISCUSSION BOARD. I'M A, I'M A, UH, YEAH. SOONER RATHER THAN LATER KIND OF PERSON. AND THEN SEND IT TO ME AND THEN I WILL GET IT IN THE PACKET. YES. UM, AND WELL WE'RE JUMPING TO HOW THINGS WILL WORK, BUT THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE WE'RE ON THIS ITEM. WHAT I DO, IT'S, UH, COUPLE WEEKS BEFORE THE THURSDAY, ACCORDING TO THE RULES OF PROCEDURE, I'VE SENT THE AGENDA, DRAFT AGENDA TO THE LIAISON, CITY SECRETARY AND OUR STAFF LIAISON AND THAT THEY CAN ADD THAT, THAT STUFF MAY GET ADDED, CHANGED SOMETHING THEN THE PACKET OR THE, THE AGENDA GENERALLY GETS WRITTEN AND I THINK THE CITY SECRETARY IS ACTUALLY DRAFTING THE AGENDA, CORRECT? I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT. SHE DID THIS TIME DID NOT ANSWER. YES, SHE DID. AND I TRIED TO ADD SOME STUFF, WHICH WE'LL GET TO IN A MINUTE FOR THIS PACKET. AND I SENT IT TO JORDAN THAT WAS A DRY HOLE . SO IF, IF, IF ISSUES WITH THE PACKET COME UP, THE AGENDA AND THE PACKET, IT'S EITHER GONNA BE ME EMAILING AND OR MEETING WITH YOU AND, AND WELL, YOU WERE, HOWEVER, HOWEVER WE SORT THIS OUT WITH THE CITY SECRETARY 'CAUSE SHE'S ACTUALLY DOING THE, THE WORK TO PUT THE PACKET TOGETHER. I, I'LL, I'LL DISCUSS THIS WITH JORDAN AND UH, WE CAN OKAY. BUT IN ANY CASE, YOU'LL SEND IT TO ME AND WE'LL GET HER IN THE PACKET. CORRECT. DO YOU WANT, DO YOU WANT THE SUBCOMMITTEE NOTES AS WELL OR JUST THE RED LINE? I THINK DENOTES WOULD, WOULD BE GOOD BECAUSE I THINK ULTIMATELY WE WANT TO SEND THAT TO THE COUNCIL. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND, AND YOU MAY HAVE SOME EVIDENCE ON THE, ON YOUR NOTES. I'M NOT SURE. I SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THIS. I SPENT A LOT OF TIME FIXING IT. I SPENT A LOT OF TIME FIXING IT AGAIN, I SPENT MORE TIME TODAY FIXING IT AND I'M LOOKING FOR A BETTER SOLUTION. UM, SO I DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN. NOW I'VE GOTTA GO BACK THROUGH ALL OUR EMAIL CHAIN, MAKE SURE THE RED LINE IS CORRECT 'CAUSE IT'S NOT, SO I GET TO START OVER BASICALLY. I MEAN, NOT ALL THE WAY OVER, BUT, AND THEN I GOTTA MAKE SURE THAT MY SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS GET A FINAL REVIEW ALSO. WELL, THAT'S A SUBCOMMITTEE CALL FOLKS. THAT'S UP TO Y'ALL WHAT YOU WANT TO SEND TO US, PERIOD. IN THE MESSAGE. OKAY. BUT I LIKE THAT DOCUMENT AND IT'S GOOD TO SEND IT TO THE COUNCIL BECAUSE THEY CAN SEE THE DETAIL, BECAUSE THE COUNCIL CAN SEE THE DETAIL THAT, THAT Y'ALL WENT THROUGH AND THE BUILDING STANDARDS COMMISSION WENT THROUGH AND IT'S PART OF MY ISSUE AND WE'LL GET TO AT THE END. ALRIGHT. YEAH, I, I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CONFUSION ABOUT NOT ALL THE UH, RED LINES BEING THERE, SO I'LL WORK ON IT. NO, THANK YOU. YOU DON'T NEED TO BOTHER. NO, IT'S GOOD STUFF DID GOOD WORK. I'M FRUSTRATED WITH IT. . ALRIGHT. I BET. OKAY, NEXT ITEM [IV.1. Discuss possible ordinance amendments concerning a process to appeal an administrative decision that does not enforce the code of ordinances.] IS A WORK SESSION ON A PERMIT EXPIRATION. UH, AND YOU HAVE A UPDATED COPY THAT I TRIED TO GET IN THE PACKET. THAT'S THE ONE THAT WENT [01:20:01] IN, IN THE BLACK HOLE. SO THIS IS ONE THAT READS ENFORCING THE CODE TWO. SO THERE WAS A DOCUMENT IN THE, IN THE PACKET. THE THOUGHT IS TO, WITH RESPECT TO GRIEVANCE, IT'S TO EXPAND IT. WHO COULD, WHO COULD FILE A GRIEVANCE OR CLARIFY OR LEAVE IT AS IT IS. I'M GONNA WALK THROUGH THIS BRIEFLY. WELL, I'M GONNA WALK THROUGH THE DOCUMENT THAT HAS MY NOTES ON IT. THAT IN THIS, THIS IS ACTUALLY A REFERRAL. PNC HAS DEALT WITH, UH, THIS ISSUE. AND, UH, AND IT'S BACK TO THEY DID NOT ACT ON IT AND, UH, SENT IT TO THE STAFF FOR COMMENTS. AND I ASSUME THAT PROBABLY GONNA BE JANUARY TWO. WE'LL SEE. AND I'M GET, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS ONE? SO THAT IN, IN THIS CONVERSATION WE HAD, THIS IS WHATEVER HAPPENS IS NOT GONNA BE BEFORE JANUARY. SO, AND I'M LOOKING TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY INTEREST ON THE PART OF THE COMMISSION TO MS. VAN, CLARIFY OR LEAVE AS IT IS THE ISSUE OF AGGRIEVED PERSON. WE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH ENFORCEMENT, WHO IS THE AGGRIEVED PERSON? SO YOU DEFINE IT. ACTUALLY IT'S IN CHAPTER THREE AND 11. A, A, AN AGREED PERSON THAT COULD BRING A CASE TO US, COULD BE AN OFFICER OF THE CITY. AND THIS INCLUDES ZONING ORDINANCE, JIM, I THINK COMMISSIONERS P AND C COMMISSIONERS, DAVE ARE OFFICERS OF THE CITY. BUT THAT, THAT'S A DEFINITION ISSUE. AT THE LAST MEETING WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT DEFINITIONS, I SAID CITIES THAT HAVE A BUNCH OF SEPARATE CODES DON'T HAVE ONE SET OF DEFINITIONS THAT'S WRONG. CITIES WITH THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE DO SO. THEY PUT CHECK, THEY PUT THEIR BILLING CODE, THE SIGN CODE, DEFENSE CODES, THE ZONING ORDINANCE, THE SUBDIVISION RES, ALL THOSE DEVELOPMENT RELATED ORDINANCES IN ONE PLACE AND CALL IT THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. AND IT HAS DEFINITIONS, THE SAME ONES FOR ALL OF THEM. IN ANY CASE, WHO IS AN OFFICER OF THE CITY NOT FIND ANYWHERE TO GO ON GOOGLE AND ASK THAT QUESTION, SAYS, COMMISSIONER. SO TODAY, CAN A COMMISSIONER, WHETHER IT BE A PNC COMMISSIONER OR BUILDING A STANDARDS COMMISSIONER, BRING AN APPEAL TO AN ISSUE RELATED TO CHAPTER 11 AND 14? I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES. WITH RESPECT TO THIS ISSUE, YOU'VE GOTTA DEFINE THE PROCESS. THE PROCESS IS STATED IN CHAPTER THREE AND 11, WHICH ARE OUR CODES DEFINE THE BORDER COMMISSION APPEAL AS SUCH FOR CHAPTERS THREE AND 11 AND 11 IS, UH, ACCESS TO STREETS WITH RESPECT TO THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IN CURRENT STATE LAW WITH RESPECT TO AGREED PERSON. THAT'S A PERSON WITHIN 200 FEET OF THE CASE. SO IF WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING WITH CHAPTER THREE AND 11, THAT THAT ISSUE PLAYS OUT. WHEN THE, THE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT, UH, PROPOSED THIS ADDITION OR CHANGES TO THE CODE SPOKE TO PNC, HE WANTED TO EXPAND IT TO 500 FEET. AND I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANY CONSENSUS ON THE PART OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION TO DO THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO DO THAT HERE. NOW, AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE, [01:25:01] STARTING ON PAGE ONE IS WHAT THE EXISTING CODE SAYS. AND IT SAYS A DETERMINATION MADE BY A CITY OFFICIAL. I THINK THAT INCLUDES A CODE IN FORT CODE NOW. IT'S CALLED CODE COMPLIANCE. I THINK THAT INCLUDES A CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER. IT, IT CERTAINLY INCLUDES THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, BUT I THINK THAT INCLUDES CODE COMPLIANCE. SO WHO, WHO CAN BRING AN APPEAL TO THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION AGAINST A CITY OFFICIAL, COULD BE A CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER. TAKE A LOOK AT PAGE TWO AND I'LL SLOW UP AND LET Y'ALL READ THIS WHOLE SECTION. WHAT I'VE HIGHLIGHTED, IT SAYS ANY PERSON, AGGRIEVED, AGGRIEVED PERSON IS NOT DEFINED IN CHAPTER THREE OR 11. IF YOU GO ONLINE AND ASK GOOGLE WHAT AN DEGREED PERSON IS, IT'S SOMEBODY THAT'S BEEN HARMED. SO HAVE TO SHOW HARM CAN'T BE INDIRECT. IT'S FUZZY LANGUAGE. BUT IT'S ANY CASE AN GRIEVED PERSON IS NOT DEFINED IN THREE OR 11. IT IS FOR ZONING AND IT SAYS IN A GREAT PERSON BY DENIAL OF A PERMIT, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE USED TO OR A DECISION MADE BY A CITY OFFICIAL THAT DA DA DA. AND I THINK THAT INCLUDES APPROVAL OF A PERMIT OR FAILURE TO ENFORCE BY CODE COMPLIANCE. SO FOR INSTANCE, IF SOMEBODY BUILD HOUSE UP THE HILL FROM ME, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GONNA RUN DOWN ON TOP OF ME AND THEY GOT A PERMIT, WHICH WE'VE SEEN AND IT LOOKS LIKE I'M GOING TO GET WETTER BECAUSE WHAT I SEE IS A PROBLEM. CAN YOU APPEAL THAT TO BUILDING AND STANDARDS? I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES. I'M LOOKING AT THIS SENTENCE STRUCTURE. IT DOES BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA SHOW HARM, RIGHT? IF YOU SHOW HARM. YEP. NOW THAT I'M HARM TALKING ABOUT PHYSICAL INJURY, NO FINANCIAL, UH, EXPENSES, INCONVENIENCE, TRAFFIC ISSUES CREATED BY WHATEVER IT IS BECAUSE THAT'S, I I HAD, I HAD SOMEBODY, UH, AROUND THE CORNER FROM MY HOUSE WANTED TO PUT A, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? LIKE A CARPORT, BUT THEY WANTED A VARIANCE 'CAUSE THEY WANTED TO PUT IT LITERALLY OUT TO WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE STREET. AND I GOT A LETTER AND I'M, I MEAN, I'M SURE I WAS ONE OF MANY THAT SAID, UM, NO, 'CAUSE WHAT IT WAS GONNA MEAN IS THERE WAS GONNA BE PROBLEMS WITH THEM TRYING TO GET IN AND OUT OF THAT DRIVEWAY. AND IF THEY DIDN'T GET TO DO IT, THANK GOODNESS. BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I GUESS I WOULD'VE BEEN A DEGREE PERSON. 'CAUSE IF THEY HAD GRANTED THE PERMIT, I WOULD'VE, I'D HAVE COME BEFORE THE BUILDING COMMISSION SAY, WHY ARE YOU DOING NO, DIDN'T DO THIS. WELL, THERE'S A PROCESS THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT'S DEFINED FOR NO, NO. YEAH. I'M SAYING NOW THE SECTION OF CHAPTER THREE DOES NOT LIST OFFICER. SO THAT'S NOT US. WE COULDN'T BRING [01:30:01] A CASE TO OURSELVES, FOR INSTANCE. BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT COULDN'T BE ADDED BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT PAGE THREE OF THE DOCUMENT, THAT'S WHERE IT SAYS, APPEALS TO THE BOARD MAY BE MADE BY ANY PERSON AGREED. OR BY AN OFFICER. AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT GOES TO THE BOA, THE BE OA CAN HEAR APPEALS OF APPROVALS OR FAILURES TO ENFORCE, IN MY OPINION, CHAPTER 11, UH, ACCESS TO CITY STREETS INCLUDES OFFICER. SO FOR INSTANCE, THE THE CITY ALLOWED ACCESS TO LONGWOOD FORD. I DON'T THINK THERE WAS EVER A PERMIT FOR THAT. I DON'T THINK THE, I I UNDERSTAND IT'S A, IT'S A STORAGE PLACE THAT'S ACCESSED LONG AND FORD ACROSS FROM THE HIGH SCHOOL. OH, CORRECT. CORRECT. THAT'S, UH, THE ONLY THING WE PERMITTED WAS THE DRIVEWAY THAT THEY WERE CONNECTED. OH, YOU DID PERMIT IT. WE PERMITTED THE DRIVEWAY. YES, SIR. AND WE EXPECT IT IN MY ASSUMPTION. THIS IS GOOD NEWS. THANKS. YES, SIR. THIS IS GOOD NEWS. I DIDN'T THINK THAT IT HAPPENED. APPARENTLY THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TRIP GENERATION TO, TO TRIGGER A TIA. CORRECT. YEAH. THAT'S 200 TRIPS AT THE PEAK. THAT'S A LOT OF CARS. SUPER. BUT IF THIS, AND THAT'S GREAT TO HEAR, BUT IF THEY HADN'T, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN A CASE THAT A COMMISSIONER COULD HAVE BROUGHT TO THIS. SO IS THERE ANY INTEREST IN EXPANDING, CLARIFYING, OR LEAVING AT S IF OKAY. I I THINK SOME THINGS NEED TO BE NAILED DOWN IN 11 AND 14. AN OFFICER WHO, WHO'S THE OFFICER? AN OFFICER, IS THAT ANY, ANY CITY EMPLOYEE? NO. WELL, THE, THE ISSUE IS DEFINITION AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GETTING. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IF YOU GOOGLE EARTH, IT NOT CAN SHOW YOU THIS GOOGLE EARTH. IF YOU SAY WHAT'S THE CITY OFFICIAL IN TEXAS, IT WILL INCLUDE ELECTED AND APPOINTED OFFICIALS AND LIST COMMISSIONERS. MM-HMM . SO THAT'S, THAT'S YOUR, YOU YOU'D LIKE TO SEE A DEFINITION. YEAH. IT JUST SEEMS VERY VAGUE. OKAY. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE SEEN AN OFFICER IN ANY OF ANYTHING. WELL, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN THIS PERIOD AND IT'S A FUNCTION OF WHAT HAPPENED AT PNC AND THEN A BUNCH OF RESEARCH AND IT WENT, WHOA, THIS STUFF'S ALREADY THERE, . AND I HOPE WE DON'T EVER HAVE TO USE IT. 'CAUSE THINGS ARE GETTING BETTER. I WOULD ASSUME NOBODY WANTS TO GO TO 500 FEET. WHAT WAS, TO GET AN ISSUE OF SHOW HARM. WHAT WAS THE YOU HAVE SHOW HARM. WHAT IS THAT NEEDS TO BE DEFINED. RIGHT. OKAY. WHAT WAS THE REASONING, THE THINKING ON THE 500 FEET. ENOUGH, I MEAN, TWO, 200 FEET ON A RESIDENTIAL STREET IS, IS A NEIGHBOR. 500 FEET IS COULD BE SOMEBODY FOUR STREETS AWAY. . YEAH. AND, AND [01:35:01] THIS IS AT SOME POINT, WE'LL, I'LL FINISH IT WITH MITCH. WE'RE GONNA NEED SOME LEGAL OPINIONS ON SOME OF THIS STUFF, BUT IT'S NOT COMING BACK TILL JANUARY. RIGHT. Y'ALL WANT TO PURSUE THIS AT ALL? SURE. I GOT TWO POINTS YOU WANT TO PURSUE. YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING NEXT YEAR. PUT ON LIST MM-HMM . SO I'LL, I'LL HOPEFULLY BE ABLE TO GET TO THE ATTORNEY AND WORK WITH HIM ON SOME OF THESE DEFINITIONS. IS THAT, IS THAT OKAY? OF COURSE. IF I, IF I BRING THIS STUFF BACK, I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL BRING AN ORDINANCE BACK. I'LL BRING A CONCEPT BACK AGAIN. YES, MA'AM. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A SUGGESTION. UM, WITH ITEMS LIKE THIS, IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE LIKE A LIST THAT WE CAN REFER TO AS WE GO. 'CAUSE WHAT I'M SEEING IN HERE IS SOMETIMES IT SAYS CITY OFFICIAL, BUT IT SORT OF IMPLIES CITY BUILDING OFFICIALS. SO WE NEED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE WHO'S ACROSS THE DIFFERENT CHAPTERS. RIGHT. MS. ? YES, SIR. FOR CLARIFICATION. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HER DIAGNOSTICS IS DOING RIGHT NOW. I'M SO GLAD TO HEAR THAT. AND SO IT'S WHAT, WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE YEARS IS THAT SOMEBODY MADE AN ORDINANCE AND THE NEXT COUNCIL MADE AN ORDINANCE AND THEN, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU BLEND IT INTO ONE DOCUMENT. RIGHT? RIGHT. AND THERE'S ALL THESE MIXED USE OF WORDS AND INTERPRETATION. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS CODE DIAGNOSTICS IS DESIGNED TO DO, IS TO STREAMLINE EVERYTHING INTO ONE COHESIVE DOCUMENT. YES. AND THEN ONCE WE HAVE THAT UNIFORM LANGUAGE, THEN THAT'S THE LANGUAGE THAT WE WILL USE MOVING FORWARD WITH ALL FUTURE ORDINANCES. EXCELLENT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES, SIR. SO YOU ARE PERFECTLY UNDERSTANDING WHY THE DELAY TO JANUARY IS, I'M VERY GLAD IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THAT WE CAN'T WORK ON, IT'S JUST WE DON'T WANT TO IMPLEMENT THEM. RIGHT. UH, I'M THANKFUL FOR THAT. YEAH. YOU'RE DESCRIBING UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. EXACTLY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GONNA COME BACK WITH THAT, BUT, WELL, I ASSUME THEY'LL ALSO COME BACK WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS. RIGHT? THAT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING. THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING A FULL DIAGNOSTICS AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA COME BACK AND MAKE THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THESE ARE ALL THE PLACES THAT THERE IS NOT COHESION AND THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE MODIFIED TO GET ALL THESE DOCUMENTS TO MARRIED TOGETHER. MM-HMM . AND JUST TO GO THROUGH THE PROCEDURES OF THAT, ARE THEY GONNA COME BACK AND GO, OKAY, HERE P AND Z HERE'S YOURS, JOHNNY, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. HERE'S BUILDING STANDARDS, HERE'S ALL YOURS. OR IS IT, I I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT PROCESS MAY LOOK LIKE, BUT UH, I'M SURE WE'LL FIND GUYS. I THINK IT WILL PROBABLY OFFER SOME, UH, ASSISTANCE FOR OUR WORK PLAN FOR 2026 THAT ALLEVIATE THIS WHOLE YEAH. THING. YEAH. I AGREE. EACH TIME I LOOK AT IT, I GO, OH, OKAY. THERE'LL BE SOME STUFF COMING BACK ON THIS ONE. UH, ON THE, UH, THE AGREED PERSON, THE APPEAL IN JANUARY. NOW WE'RE GONNA GO BACK TO STAFF AND COUNCIL REPORTS AND QUESTIONS AND TALK ABOUT HOW WE CAN COMMUNICATE. NOW WHO OF THIS GROUP, WHO'S ON THE CITY EMAIL? WHO'S ON THE CITY OUTLOOK EMAIL. I HAVE IT. I DON'T LOOK AT IT. I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO. YES. I HAVE WRITTEN THAT TO THE, TO THE CITY SECRETARY. AND THE CITY MANAGER HAS REPLIED TO HER AND I GOT A COPY OF THE CITY MANAGER'S RESPONSE. HE UNDERSTANDS THE ISSUE, BUT THAT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A CITY EMAIL. WELL, IF I CAN INTERJECT, I JUST WENT THROUGH THIS YESTERDAY WITH STAN. 'CAUSE THE WEEK IN, ON THE 23RD OF OCTOBER, I WAS ABLE TO LOG INTO MY ACCOUNT AND IT RECOGNIZED ME, BUT I COULDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH TML AND OTHER THINGS. I COULDN'T GET BACK TO IT UNTIL TODAY. YESTERDAY I SAT WITH STAN FOR 30 MINUTES WHILE WE TRIED TO DO IT ON MY PHONE. 'CAUSE THAT WAS THE PC WAS AT MY HOUSE. THE PHONE I COULD BRING TO HIM. I KEPT GETTING SOMETHING THAT BASICALLY SAID I WASN'T, I [01:40:01] DIDN'T HAVE A CERTIFICATE. I DIDN'T HAVE A LICENSE. AND HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND 'CAUSE THEY JUST PAID FOR 50 OF 'EM. I WENT HOME A COUPLE HOURS LATER, HE CALLED ME AND SAID, HEY, LOG ON. I LOGGED ON, WENT STRAIGHT TO MY EMAIL, WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS, STAN AND MICROSOFT FIGURED IT OUT. SO MAYBE SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH. WHETHER, WHETHER YOU COULD JUST LOG INTO YOUR EMAIL AND IT'LL GO, OR WHETHER YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET STAN TO, YOU KNOW, DO WHATEVER YOU DID. BUT IT DID Y'ALL, DID Y'ALL GET SEE THE EMAIL ABOUT THE POSTING? NO. WE, YOU KNOW, WE USED TO GET INVITATIONS YEAH. FOR MEETINGS AND WE COULD REPLY TO THAT, WHETHER WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT OR NOT. WE'RE NOT GETTING THAT ANYMORE. HOW THAT USED TO HAPPEN IS ROY WOULD SAY TO STAN, WE'RE HAVING A MEETING. INVITE 'EM AND WE GET THE GOOGLE INVITATION. WE'RE NOT GETTING THAT. WHEN CAN THE COUNT, WHEN CAN THE COMMISSION KNOW WHEN THE PACKET IS POSTED? THE CITY'S SECRETARY SENT THAT OUT ON THE CITY'S WEB CITY'S, UH, EMAIL. SO I GOT IT. IT WAS, I HAD THE PACKET WHEN I LOOKED AT IT. IT WASN'T A LOT THERE, BUT NO, BUT YOU, YOU, YOU AND WELL, AND I HAD, I HAD SEPTEMBER, SOMETHING TOOK FROM, IT WAS SOMETHING FROM SEPTEMBER 25TH, SOME THE LAST MONTH AND THEN SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THE LAST, WITHIN THE LAST FEW DAYS, IT WAS THERE FOR THIS ONE, THIS MEETING. OKAY. THAT'S ALL THAT WAS IN MY MEETING. SO HOW WILL WE KNOW FOR MEETING? YES SIR. IS THIS JUST A, AN OPEN CONVERSATION WHERE WE YES. OKAY. AND I'M TRYING, WE'RE DOING THIS BACK. SO THE STAFF AND OUR LIAISON AND MAYBE ME CAN SORT THROUGH SOME OF THIS. OKAY. SO I'VE BEEN ON THIS COMMISSION FOR A LONG TIME AND HOPEFULLY YOU GUYS HAD ME FOR TWO MORE YEARS. I'M GONNA RE-UP FOR IT. YOU BETTER A HURRY. IT'S A TWO BY SIX. OH REALLY? YEAH. THAT'S ANOTHER EMAIL I DIDN'T GET. NO, I HAD TO ASK. NO, WE'RE NOT GETTING, NO, YOU GOTTA ASK ASKED. WE'VE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH THAT. WE USED TO GET EMAILS. SINCE YOU'RE UP, YOU GONNA STAY OR NOT. AND WE'RE NOT GETTING, NO. OKAY. IN ANY CASE, FOR ME PERSONALLY, I'M NOT SITTING IN FRONT OF A COMPUTER LONG ENOUGH TO CHECK YET. ANOTHER EMAIL, I LIKED IT WHEN NOTIFICATIONS CAME TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL. QUITE HONESTLY, I LIKE GETTING MY PACKET FOUR OR FIVE DAYS AHEAD OF TIME SO I CAN READ IT AND REVERSE IN IT. AND HONESTLY, THIS GROUP HISTORICALLY DOES A FANTASTIC JOB SITTING RIGHT HERE ARGUING AMONGST OURSELVES. WHAT WOULD HELP US WITH THE TIME IS IF WE ALL HAD A CHANCE TO SEE THE PACKETS FOR A FEW DAYS. BUT I THINK WE'D DO OUR BEST WORK SITTING RIGHT IN HERE. THE SUBCOMMITTEES DO THEIR THING COME IN, BUT I DON'T WANNA SIT ON A CHAT BOARD OR I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO CHECK A BOARD EVERY DAY TO GIVE MY INPUT. AND IF ANY ONE OF US CAN'T GET THERE FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS, THEN WE'RE BEHIND ON THE CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE GONE. GIMME THE PACK IN A FEW DAYS. LET ME LOOK AT IT THEN LET'S ARGUE AMONGST OURSELVES. THAT'S THE WAY WE DO OUR BEST WORK. THAT'S MY OPINION. I AGREE. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY I JUST DOWNLOADED THE PACKAGE, THE AGENDA AND THE PACKAGE TODAY. THEN I COME AND THERE'S ALL THIS STUFF THERE THAT I DIDN'T GET THAT I, THAT I, I HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE. YEAH. BUT I CAN SPEAK FOR THE SUBCOMMITTEE WORK. UM, BECAUSE WE DID NOT HAVE ACCESS TO OUR EMAILS. WE DIDN'T SEND IT TO FRANK IN TIME. AND THEN ADDITIONALLY THEN I SAW THAT THERE WERE ISSUES WITH THE RED LINE DOCUMENT. SO I SENT FRANK AN EMAIL AND I SAID, FRANK, WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE IT THIS MONTH TO GIVE EVERYBODY ENOUGH TIME. SO, SO I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE WALKING THROUGH WHAT WE DID HAVE. WELL, AND THAT'S WHY THAT PART WAS HERE TODAY. I DON'T KNOW. THIS IS, THIS IS JUST, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S JUST TODAY, BUT FOR THE PAST TWO OR THREE MEETINGS, EVERY TIME WE COME IN HERE, THERE'S STUFF THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SEE AND REVIEW. AND IT'S HARD TO SIT HERE AND TRY TO READ IT WHEN YOU'RE ASKING QUESTIONS AND WE'RE HAVING CONVERSATION, WE GET IT AHEAD OF TIME. SO, AND I THINK THAT GOES BACK TO THE STAFFING ISSUE. WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY PUTTING IT TOGETHER FOR US. BUT ON A SIDE NOTE, I WENT BACK AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, CHAIRPERSON, YOU ARE GOOD WITH US THROUGH 2025. HAVE YOU REAPPLIED? YES, I'M GOOD THROUGH 2025. I HAVE, WELL, LISA CITY SECRETARY SAYS SHE'S GOT IT. WE'LL SEE. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. I I I CAN'T GET FIRED ANY MINUTE, SIR. I, I, I PUT IT IN LAURA'S GOOD TILL 26. CLIFF, YOU NEED TO REAPPLY. DAVE. YOU NEED TO REAPPLY. ADAM, [01:45:01] YOU DON'T HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE ON MACHINE. HE STILL WITH, STILL WITH US TODAY. HE'S GOT, OR MAYBE IT'S TOMORROW. YOU CAN DO IT ONLINE. I MEAN, IT, IT TOOK ME A COUPLE OF MINUTES. YOU DIDN'T TELL ME. IS THAT FOR ALL THE, ALL THE BOARDS? UH, YES JIM, YOU'RE GOOD THROUGH 26. IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY'RE HIDING IT FROM US. 'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANT US RUN NO WATER. IT COMES IN THEIR WATER BILL. YEAH. THE FILL THE ON P AND C TOMORROW OR NOT. UM, PROBABLY NOT. UH, AND I CAN GIVE YOU MY OPINION, BUT, UH, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, OKAY. DO YOU MIND IF I ANSWER A COUPLE OF THE QUESTIONS THOUGH? THE QUESTION WAS WHY SEND EMAILS? UM, IT'S TO PROTECT YOU. IF THERE ARE CONVERSATIONS BEING SENT TO YOUR PRIVATE EMAILS AND THEN AN OPEN RECORDS REQUEST IS REQUESTED, THEN THE CITY HAS TO DIG INTO YOUR PHONE OR DIG INTO YOUR LAPTOPS AND EXTRACT INFORMATION FROM IT. OKAY. BECAUSE ANY DEVICE YOU'RE USING CAN BE, THEN THAT INFORMATION CAN BE EXTRACTED FROM, BECAUSE YOU'RE USING IT FOR CITY PURPOSES. IF YOU'RE ONLY LOGGING ONLINE TO YOUR CITY EMAIL, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANYBODY HAVING ACCESS TO YOUR DEVICES. RIGHT. SO YOU MADE A COMMENT EARLIER, MS. OTTER, THAT KEEPING TRACK OF ALL THESE DIFFERENT EMAILS AND YOU KNOW, I'M GETTING IT FROM HERE AND I'M GETTING IT FROM HERE AND I'M GETTING IT FROM HERE. WELL, THE POINT OF USING THE CITY EMAIL IS THAT ALL THAT INFORMATION THERE, IF AN OPEN RECORD REQUEST COMES IN, THEY CAN LOG IN, THEY CAN EXTRACT THAT INFORMATION. IT'S A SUPER EASY, EASY PROCESS. IT'S REALLY THERE DESIGNED TO PROTECT YOU. YEAH. WELL, IN ALL HONESTY, I THINK IF, IF SOMEBODY COMES AFTER THE OPEN REQUEST, THEY'RE GONNA END UP WITH A, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA COME INTO OUR PERSONAL COMPUTERS AND PHONES TO SEE IF THERE IS ANYTHING THERE. I MEAN, I'M, I'M GOOD WITH THE CITY, UH, EMAIL. I JUST HAD, COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET INTO IT. YEAH. AND I DO THINK THAT ACCORDING TO WHAT STANDS EARLIER, THAT HAS BEEN RIGHT BEHIND I EXPERIENCE. YEAH. BUT I, I AGREE. IT WOULD BE NICE IF THERE WAS A WAY TO FIGURE IT OUT. UM, WHEN I LOGGED IN, I NEVER, I NEVER SAY IT KEEP ME LOGGED IN. BUT ON THIS, ON THE, ON UH, THE CITY EMAIL, I SAID KEEP ME LOGGED IN BECAUSE IT KEEPS IT ON MY, THERE'S A TAB BECAUSE I HAVE THREE DIFFERENT EMAILS WORK PRIVATE, AND NOW THE COMMISSION. AND IT JUST KEEPS THE TAB OPEN. SO IT'S EASIER FOR ME TO JUST, I MEAN, I'M NOT CHECKING IT EVERY DAY. I WOULD HOPE THAT IF THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON, IF THE CHAIRMAN SENDS SOMETHING OUT, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU'RE NOT GONNA KNOW UNLESS YOU CHECK IT EVERY DAY. WE USED TO. 'CAUSE THEY SEND US OUR FIRST OR THEY'LL END UP CALLING US OR READY PACKET'S. READY, TAKE A LOOK. YOU WANT A COPY OF THIS NOW? SO, SO WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE NOBODY WILL KNOW. WELL SOME OF US WILL. THAT ROBIN'S EMAIL TELLING US THE PACKET IS POSTED, YOU WON'T GET IT. WE KNOW THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. SO WHAT ELSE COULD, COULD YOU DO? TYPICALLY IT WAS THURSDAYS FOR EVERYBODY. YOU WITH ME ON THURSDAYS? YEAH. SO EVERYBODY WENT ON THURSDAY TO SEE, TO GET THE PACKET. RIGHT. I WOULD GO ON WHEN ROY TOLD ME THE PACKET WAS READY AND THEN I WOULD IMMEDIATELY CALL DOWN AND ASK HIM TO PRINT ME A COPY AND I'D COME HERE AND I'D GET IT THE NEXT DAY. BUT HOW DID ROY TELL YOU THE PACKET WAS READY? HE SENT ME AN EMAIL TO MY FIRST, TO MY REGULAR EMAIL. OKAY. AND I, I, THERE'S TWO ISSUES. HOW DO YOU KNOW IF WE'RE MEETING AND IF ROBIN SENDS THE EMAIL, THE PACKETS POSTED AND SHE MAY EVEN INCLUDE THE PACKET. FORGET, SHE MAY HAVE BEEN INCLUDED THE PACKET IN HER EMAIL, BUT SHE SENDS OUT AND SENT AN EMAIL THAT'S PO THAT IT'S THERE. HERE'S THE PACKET THAT TELLS YOU THAT'S THE PACKET AND THAT WE'RE MEETING. SO IF YOU CAN'T GET ON THE CITY'S EMAIL, HOW ARE YOU GONNA KNOW FOR MEETING? WELL, CAN'T, CAN'T I JUST REQUEST THAT THEY SEND ME NOTIFICATIONS, MY PERSONAL EMAIL. YOU CAN, I DID THAT. THE CITY MANAGER SAID NO. THEN I GUESS I'LL KEEP WAITING. OR IF WE SIT HERE LONG ENOUGH, I WON'T GET A CHANCE TO TURN MY APPLICATION. I'LL BE ON THE BOARD NEXT MONTH. NOW THERE, THERE IS A WAY TO DOWNLOAD OUTLOOK ONTO [01:50:01] YOUR DEVICE SO THAT IT COMES IN TO YOUR PHONE. JUST LIKE ANY OTHER EMAIL. OKAY. I'VE ALREADY GOT THREE OF THEM. RIGHT. STILL FULL. IT'S THROWING UP OF EMAILS. SO YOU CAN, YOU CAN ADD A FOURTH ONE. YOU CAN, BUT JUST AT ONCE YOU DOWNLOAD IT, THEN THAT DEVICE IS NOW SUBJECT TO SUBJECT TO, TO JUST LIKE MY LAPTOP WOULD BE. EXACTLY. YEAH. SO THEN WHAT ARE WE REALLY GAINING BY HAVING THAT? IF YOU TELL ME THAT AS SOON AS I DOWNLOAD THE UPLOAD FOR THE CITY'S EMAIL ONTO ONE OF MY DEVICES, WHAT AM I GAINING? BECAUSE IF THEY WANT TO LOOK, THEY'RE STILL GONNA TAKE US. LOOK AT, AND I'M, I'M NOT TECH TECH, I'M NOT TECHNICAL, TECHNOLOGY'S NOT MY FRIEND NEITHER'S VOCABULARY, EVIDENTLY . BUT WHAT STAN TOLD ME WAS WHERE AS YOUR EMAIL THAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR COMPUTER AT HOME, YOU'RE GOING THROUGH GMAIL. THEY'VE GOT THE RECORDS OF ALL YOUR EMAILS BECAUSE WE'RE GOING IN THROUGH A BROWSER. UH, IT'S LITERALLY, IT'S JUST OPEN UNDER THAT TAB. WHEN YOU CLOSE IT, IT'S GONE. THERE'S NO HISTORY ON YOUR COMPUTER. IT'S, IT'S JUST BECAUSE IT'S THAT IT'S, IT'S REAL SPECIFIC. I'LL HAVE TO GET MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW BECAUSE MY COMPANY ALSO DOES THE SAME THING. SO I ALREADY HAVE AN OUTLOOK ACCOUNT THAT I GET OTHER EMAILS FROM MY WORK FROM. SO I'VE GOT MULTIPLE THINGS GOING ON. AND THAT'S ME BEING A CAVEMAN, NOT BEING ELECTRONIC. LET, LET ME TRASH SOMETHING. LET ME AN, AN ATTEMPT. CAN THE STAFF TELL US THAT OUR LIAISON TELL STAN THAT WE'RE MEETING AND ASK HIM TO SEND OUT THE INVITES LIKE WE USED TO? I THINK WE COULD. OKAY. IT WOULD STAN AND JORDAN ON IT. AND I BELIEVE, UH, I MEAN HE USED TO DO IT. YEAH. WE CAN DEFINITELY WORK TOGETHER AND GET A PROCESS GOING AND THAT WAY WE KNOW WHO'S COMING TOO. SECONDLY, IF YOU DON'T GET ROBIN'S EMAIL THAT THE PACKET'S THERE LOOK THIRSTY. NO, THE, ON THE CITY'S WEBPAGE FOR STUFF THAT'S POSTED. RIGHT. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING. I'VE BEEN GOING TO THE CITY'S WEBPAGE THAT WILL TELL YOU IF THERE'S A MEETING AND THEN WHEN YOU DOWNLOAD THE AGENDA PACKAGE, YOU GET IT. NOW THE DIFFERENCE IS, IS THAT IF I GO AND HAD LOOKED FOR THIS FOUR DAYS AGO AND CLIFF CAME BEHIND ME TWO DAYS LATER, WE'RE GETTING DIFFERENT STUFF. SO AS IT GETS UPDATED OR STUFF GETS ADDED TO IT, THOSE OF US THAT CHECKED A LITTLE BIT TOO EARLY MAY NOT HAVE EVERYTHING AS THE SAME AS THE PERSON THAT CHECKED THE DAY BEFORE THE MEETING. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. SO IF I, I CAN CONTINUE TO DO IT THAT WAY. SO LONG AS WE CAN TRY TO AT LEAST GET THE MEETING PACKET IN THURSDAY BEFORE EVERYTHING, THEN I THINK WE CAN STILL FUNCTIONALLY FINE. YEAH. AND I I STATE'S WEBSITE. YEAH. AND THE CONVERSATION I HAD WITH JORDAN THE OTHER DAY, MITCH, SHE WAS KEPT SAYING 72 HOURS. I'M GOING, NO, IT'S THURSDAY. IT'S MONDAY'S TOO LATE. YEAH. NOW THE CITY MAY END UP HAVING AN AMENDED AGENDA PRIOR TO 72. SOMETIMES STUFF GETS SNAPPED FOOD AND YOU NEED TO AMEND IT. THAT MIGHT HAPPEN. AND SO YOU MIGHT SEE AN AMENDED AGENDA 72 PRIOR, WHICH IS MONDAY. NO, IT WON'T BE 72 IS THURSDAY. 'CAUSE THEY REVISED IT. YES. SEVEN TWO WORKING HOURS, WORKING DAYS. THANK YOU. SO FRIDAY NO LONGER QUALIFIED. YEAH. THANKS. THANK YOU. SO IT'S THURSDAY AND IT WON'T BE THURSDAY'S THE PACKET, IF THERE'S STUFF WRONG WITH THE AGENDA, THAT'S LIFE. OKAY. AND I WILL, IF I, IF I COULD GET DRAFTS, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO WORK THROUGH SOME OF THAT STUFF OR NOT SOME MINOR ISSUE. OKAY. BULLET BOARD. I'VE BEEN ON A BULLET BOARD WITH P AND C. A COUPLE OF US HAD TALKED NOT MUCH THERE. NOT A, NOT A BIG DEAL FOR ME GUYS TO, TO SPITBALL IT. NOT, I DON'T KNOW HOW Y'ALL SUBCOMMITTEE WORKED, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THAT, AND I'VE NOT, I I'VE NOT EVER LOGGED INTO THIS DISCUSSION BOARD, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IF, IF YOU WERE WORKING ON THIS AND UH, I'M SORRY, HIS COMMISSIONER'S NOT HERE. MR. STANDFORD DANDER. STANDFORD. IF HE'S OUT OF TOWN, YOU COULD PUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE IN THE DISCUSSION BOARD. HE CAN SEE IT WHEREVER HE'S AT AND [01:55:01] EVEN CONTRIBUTE. WHEREAS IF NOT, IF HE'S OUTTA TOWN, THEN IT'S JUST TWO PEOPLE ON THE, ON IT. SO I CAN SEE THAT WE COULD USE IT FOR THAT ESPECIALLY YES. FOR ALL OUR BIG DISCUSSIONS. WE TALK A LOT AT THIS STUFF. I CAN'T IMAGINE THE DISCUSSIONS ON THE DISCUSSION BOARD. I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF GOING THROUGH THAT ON THE DISCUSSION BOARD. NO, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I I, I'M, I'M WITH YOUR POINT. I THINK THIS COMMISSION REALLY DOES GREAT JOB WHEN WE SIT DOWN. MM-HMM . OKAY. THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IS, I THINK THE SUB, THE SUBCOMMITTEES COULD USE IT, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE, 'CAUSE WE'VE HAD COMMISSIONERS WHO TRAVEL. IF THEY'RE ON A SUBCOMMITTEE AND THEY'RE TRAVELING, HE COULD BE, HE COULD BE VERY INVOLVED IN IT REMOTELY. THE SUBCOMMITTEES THREE, THOSE GUYS CAN COMMUNICATE ANY WAY THEY WANT TO. I KNOW, BUT WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS IF SURE THEY CAN START AN EMAIL CHAIN FROM THEIR PRIVATE EMAILS TALKING ABOUT IT OR THEY CAN PUT IT ON THE DISCUSSION BOARD THAT'S ALREADY THERE FOR US WITH THE SAME INFORMATION AND ACCESS IT REMOTELY. I YES, TRUE. MY POINT WOULD BE THAT I'M HOPEFUL WE COULD GET, AND WE ARE GETTING GREAT STUFF FROM THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND I WOULD, I DON'T KNOW IF THE INDIVIDUAL OUTSIDE COMMISSIONERS WANTED TO BEGIN THE DEBATE WITH THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE BULLETIN BOARD BECAUSE THE SUBCOMMITTEE IS NOT GONNA BE TOGETHER TO DEAL WITH THAT. WELL, I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT THE SUBCOMMITTEES BEING ABLE TO TALK. IF THEY, IF THEY CAN'T MEET IN PERSON, THEY COULD PUT IT ON THE DISCUSSION BOARD AND TALK ABOUT IT. I'M SUGGESTING THAT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO DO IT WITH THE SUBCOMMITTEE. SURE. BECAUSE THEY MIGHT NOT GET ON, THEY CAN COMMUNICATE BY EMAIL OR IN PERSON IN OR PHONE IN ANY WAY THEY WANT. AND IF YOU WANT TO PUNT IT ON THE BULLET AND BOARD, THAT'S FINE. BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE AN ISSUE IF AN OUTSIDE MEMBER JUMPS INTO THAT DISCUSSION WITH THE SUBCOMMITTEE. NO, NO. YOU DO HAVE THE ENTIRE COMMISSION ON THERE. FRANK POINT, YOU GOT TOO MANY CHIEFS. WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, FOR THOSE OF US THAT HAVE BEEN ON SUBCOMMITTEES, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE ARE THREE OF YOU WORK SOME STUFF OUT AND YOU GET THAT COMMISSIONER SENDING STUFF TO YOU, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO? THAT'S MY POINT. YOU MEAN? BUT IT'S CERTAINLY THE SYSTEM IS THERE, YOU MEAN A COMMISSIONER OUTSIDE OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE WHERE YES. OKAY. WELL, I THINK, UH, I THINK WHAT WILL HAPPEN, I MEAN IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE, FOR DISCUSSIONS TO TAKE PLACE AND THEN HOPEFULLY, UM, IF, IF A PERSON OUTSIDE OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE HAS A POINT, IT MIGHT BE MAYBE IT'S A VALID POINT AND MAYBE WE CAN GO FIX SOMETHING BEFORE THE MEETING AND PREPARE IT FOR THE PACKET. AND I THINK WHAT YOU'LL FIND IS WHETHER PEOPLE WANNA PARTICIPATE OR NOT. YOU, I THINK WE'LL WIND UP HAVING, UM, THE USUAL, THOSE WHO WANNA PARTICIPATE WILL PARTICIPATE AND THOSE WHO HAVE TIME AND WANT TO WILL AND CONVERSATIONS, UM, THAT MAKE SENSE WILL HAPPEN NATURALLY. UM, AND MAYBE IT'LL BE SLOW TO GET STARTED BECAUSE IT'S A NEW THING FOR THIS COMMISSION APPARENTLY. SO. WELL I WOULD NOTE TOO THAT WHILE WE WERE EDITING THIS AND MOST OF THE EDITING WAS DONE BY CRAIG AND LAURA BECAUSE I WAS OUT OF TOWN FOR 10 DAYS, TRYING TO GET A COPY THAT EVERYBODY COULD WORK ON WITHOUT LOSING EDITS WOULD BE A REAL BENEFIT. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS, THIS DISCUSSION BOARD WILL DO THAT. WHAT WAS THE, WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? I HEARD PARTIAL ALREADY HAVING A COPY OF A DOCUMENT, SAY, UH, SECTION NINE THAT WE WERE WORKING ON THAT EVERYBODY COULD COMMENT IN AND IT WOULD SAVE EVERYBODY'S COMMENTS. BECAUSE I WONDERED SOMETIMES IF MAYBE YOU HAD MADE AN EDIT WHILE SOMEBODY ELSE HAD A COPY OPEN. [02:00:01] UH, AND THEN I WONDER THAT TOO, THEY SAVED THEIRS OVER YOURS AND WIPED YOUR COMMENTS FILE. YEAH, YEAH. UM, YEAH, THE DISCUSSION WAS NOT GONNA ALLOW A WORKSHOP FILE DOCUMENT. I MEAN, ONCE YOU TYPE IT IN THERE, YOU CAN'T EDIT IT. IT'S, YEAH. IT'S NOT A WORKABLE SOFTWARE. YEAH. I MEAN THE THE, YOUR EMAIL WILL STILL BE THERE, BUT IT'S COPYABLE. BUT IS WHO, WHO IS WORKED WITH TRACK CHANGE? OH, IN DIFF IN WORD DOCUMENTS. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. BUT I THINK THAT BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE, I DON'T THINK WE'LL USE GOOGLE DOCS AGAIN. WELL YOU CAN DO THAT. THE SUBCOMMITTEE COULD DO THAT, BUT TRACK CHANGE WILL WORK ON A BULLET BOARD. OKAY. SO LOTS OF OPTIONS TO COMMUNICATE OTHER TECHNICAL ISSUES. MY, MY STRONG PREFERENCE IS THAT STUFF THAT GETS SENT TO US, REFERRAL OR ORDINANCE OR SOMEBODY HAS AN IDEA, GETS A STAFF REVIEW PRIOR TO THE MEETING. THERE'S ANOTHER DEFINITION WHICH WHAT STAFF . THAT WOULD BE MITCH BUILDING OFFICIAL CITY OFFICIAL. SO WE'LL JUST STRIKE THE STAFF AND PUT MITCH . WELL NO, THAT'S IT. THAT'S THE WAY, THAT'S THE, AND THEN HE'LL BE, I MEAN THIS, THE SUBCOMMITTEE I THINK DID SOME GREAT WORK. TYPICALLY ROY WOULD SIT IN WITH THE SUBCOMMITTEES AND ALL THE WORK THAT WE DID, THE SUB IT WAS SUBCOMMITTEE AND ROY. AND SO IF WE HAVE SUBCOMMITTEES, MY HOPE WOULD BE THAT MITCH SITS IN AND TONIGHT HE WAS, I THINK, VERY HELPFUL IN GOING AND WE HAD THE TIME TO GO THROUGH THE DOCUMENT AND I THINK YOU WERE VERY HELPFUL. MM-HMM . BUT I'LL HOPE THAT STUFF HAPPENS BEFORE IT GETS TO THE COMMISSION. OKAY. FOR A YEAR, OVER A YEAR. IT'S 18 MONTHS. THE COUNCIL, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND THE BUILDING AND STANDARDS COMMISSION HAS LOOKED AT STUFF WITHOUT STAFF INPUT, YOU KNOW? OKAY. AND THAT TO SOME EXTENT, THAT'S WHY STUFF STOPPED. AND WE'RE WAITING FOR NICKOL. . ALRIGHT. SO, BUT WE GOT, SO IF YOU HAVE SOME STUFF THAT YOU'RE GOING TO CHANGE AND INVITE MITCH TO TAKE A PEEK AT IT. IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S OKAY. ALL RIGHT. TECHNICAL STUFF FROM WHAT GOES HERE TO THE COUNCIL, ROY WAS THE ONE STOP SHOP. WE WOULD, WE WOULD DO A RED LINE. HE WOULD PREPARE THE ORDINANCE, WHICH HAD THE CLEAN COPY AND HE HAD THE COMMISSIONS RED LINE. AND AT SOME POINT IT'S A WORKOUT AND WE GOT TIME. WHO'S GONNA DRAFT ORDINANCES THAT WE SEND TO THE COUNCIL. AND IF, IF WE HAVE IT AIN'T US, THE STAFF, THEN I'M GOING TO KEEP DOING IT. YOU WITH ME? YOU DON'T WANT ME TO DO IT. WELL, I, AND BUT Y'ALL, Y'ALL HAVE DONE GREAT WORK FIXING MY STUFF. SO, SO THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO GET DOCUMENTS. THIS IS IN INSTEAD OF A RED LINE. I'M PROPOSED FOR CHAPTER NINE THAT WE GIVE THIS. OKAY. SO THEY CAN SEE WHAT'S BEFORE AND AFTER. AND GOD SAYS IN DISCUSSION. SO, AND WITH THE STAFF HELP ME OUT AND THE COUNCIL . SO THEY MAY NOT GET A RED LINE, THEY'RE JUST GONNA GET THE CHANGES AND THEY'LL GET A CLEAN ORDINANCE. SO I'M DRAFTING THE ORDINANCE. YOU WITH ME? YES. SO YOU WOULD, YOU WON'T SEE THE ORDINANCE. SO WHAT YOU SAY, WE HOPE WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT EXHIBIT A IS, BUT I'M DRAFTING THE ORDINANCE. PART OF THIS IS THE ISSUE OF THE WHERE ATS AND THE WHERE FORS WITH ORDINANCES. IF THE FOLKS THAT ARE DRAFTING THE ORDINANCE HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY OF THE REASONING BEHIND WHAT WE'RE DOING, AND THAT INCLUDES THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THIS STAFF, THE [02:05:01] WAREHOUSE. AND WHERE FOURS BECOME FAIRLY IMPORTANT. BUT IF THE STAFF IS SITTING IN, THEY KNOW WHAT TO PUT IN THE WAREHOUSE AND THE WHERE. FOURS, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M GETTING AT IN TERMS OF WAREHOUSE AND, OKAY. NOW LET ME, WHO'S GONNA DO THE PACKET COVER LETTER TO THE COUNCIL? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I HAVE AN EMAIL, DR. RIGHT HERE THAT I AM WRITING EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE ASKING. I HAVE YOU ON COPY AND AS SOON AS THIS MEETING IS DONE, I WILL SEND IT TO SEEK CLARIFICATION ON THIS QUESTION TO CITY MANAGER. I HAVE YOU, UM, JORDAN, MITCH, MYSELF. UM, OKAY. SMITH MARTIN. UM, NOT TO CITY MANAGER. I DO HAVE CHARLES ON THE, ON HIS COPY. YES SIR. SUPER. AND I UNDERSTAND YOU WANT TO GO TO PNC, BUT YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT. IT WAS JUST A RECOMMENDATION. WELL, WHATEVER. IS THERE ANY FURTHER BUSINESS BEFORE THE COMMISSION CHAIR WILL ACCEPT A MOTION? MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN TO ME. I'LL SECOND IT. MOTION ADJOURN FOR DISCUSSION. ALL THIS FAVOR, RAISE YOUR HAND. WE'RE OUTTA HERE. THANK YOU. GOOD WORK. VERY GOOD WORK. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.